Ideal fare structure?

[cbtadmin]

This have might have been covered already, but I'd like to start a thread on the ideal fare structure for Auckland. What concerns me at the moment is there is a lot of discussion on technical solutions for ticketing, but no discussion on any ideal customer requirement.

Personally I'm drawn to the idea of fare caps, which is how I understand it works in London. In this scenaio, punters are charged when they get on their first trip, but as they get on subsequent trips during the day they aren't charged over a certain fare cap amount ($5 for example). This has the advantage from the customer's point of view in that you don't need to consider how many trips you might make during the day before you start. The disadvantage is the customer needs to keep topping up their card regularly.

I currently use a GoRider monthly pass because I don't like the hassle of carrying cash for my bus trips, even though financially I'd probably be better off paying cash or using a stored value GoRider.

If we had fare caps in place, would there be any point in having monthly passes?

[doloras]

The ideal fare structure is zero.

[greenwelly]

If we had fare caps in place, would there be any point in having monthly passes?

London still has weekly. monthly and annual travel cards, despite having oyster fare capping.
The longer term tickets offer more discounts than the regular capped fare.

[Nick R]

I get a weekly pass at 5x the daily pass rate (which is the daily cap here in Melbourne, use a two-hour multi trip pass twice and it becomes a daily valid until 3am the next day). And you can get a calendar month for the price of four weekly tickets.

So under this strucutre there are certainly further benefits for getting passes even though the daily rate is capped. Which is great if you commute to work five days a week, with a weekly pass you effectively pay for your work trips and get anything else in the weekends and evenings for free. I'd buy monthlies except I don't think the cardboard ticket would survive that long in my hands, I've had a few weeklies fail as it is (Myki should fix that any week now...). Perfect for me would be a fortnightly pass that is direct debited from my account on pay day, I would never have to worry about tickets or money ever again.

Personally I have never experienced a fare system more straightforward and easy to use as Melbourne's two-zone system of time based passes. It allows one to travel basically anywhere, anytime on any number of services while their pass is valid. IMHO this is what Auckland should try to copy, anything else is just unneccesary complexity, bother and barriers to entry from non PT users.

As simple as possible I say, I think people on this board tend to forget that 99% of Aucklanders aren't public transport advocates or transport enthusiasts. We need to spend more time in the shoes of Joe and Jane average.

[Loose_Shunter]

Hello,

If I may comment in my professional capacity (a fares policy person in the Victorian DOT), the first principles decision to make is whether you have a distance- or zone-based fare structure? Next, do you choose a time-based or journey-based ticketing product?

In what I'm about to say, I have assumed a zone-based fares structure and a time-based ticketing product (like Melbourne or Perth) because that's a system I can talk about with some knowledge.

In my mind, the key elements to a possible fares structure for Auckland are as follows:

No financial penalty for multi-modal travel - Customers must not be penalised for transfers between mode. The good Dr Mees is quoted on somebody's sig about this and it should be a self-evident principle

Steep price differential between 'cash' and 'stored value' fares - You'll never be able to totally get rid of a cash ticket as there will always be tourists (who don't want to invest in a smartcard or don't know the system), the ignorant, tinfoil hat wearers (smartcards are a de facto tracking system for the New World Order) or others that don't want to switch to stored value. However, to set a premium for the ease and convenience (to both operator and customer) of stored value, cash tickets should show a strong (>20%) price differential above stored value fares. SE Queensland have decided to further raise the difference between cash and stored value while offering incentives to switch to stored value.

2 hour/Daily fare capping - the 2 hour (or 3 hour or whatever time period is chosen) cap should allow a customer to make at the very least a single journey across town for a long distance and a return journey over a short distance. The second time a 2 hour fare is validated, the cap should then roll over to a Daily cap. This is what Melbourne's fare system does already with the 10x2 hour ticket (the 2nd validation 'converts' it to a Daily) and will transfer across to myki. The Daily fare cap should be the equivalent of a return journey for the combination of zone or zones travelled.

Simplify the existing fares structure - This is really important to try and modify customer behaviour before implementing a new ticketing system. Look through the ticketing data, find the tickets which have low sales and get rid of them. Simplify the number of products and develop a standard product range to help reduce confusion and promote a 'multi-operator/multi-modal' mindset among customers. This means all the products used by individual operators must go to be standardised on a basic range used across all modes. Melbourne fought this battle in 2003-4 when the plethora of non-standard products used by Connex, M>Train, M>Tram and Yarra and National Bus were gradually washed out of the system over the following 3 years. Once you've got a standardised fares structure, lots of other things will flow from it - off-peak weekday pricing, weekend discounts, free travel offers and all the rest can happen once there's a unified fares system.

The other fundamental questions come down to whether you want to abolish periodical tickets or keep them. You need good ticketing sales data to know how big a segment periodical ticket holders to keep them as part of your new fares structure or the political will to abolish periodicals (as they did in Perth many years ago). If you want to keep periodicals, they need to be created as a separate, stored value 'pass' product kept different to stored value. Perth translated the discounts for periodicals to the multi-trip tickets in their old ticketing system and then translated it again to the reload mode on Smartrider (the deepest discount went to 'autoload' customers, while stored value customers got the basic discount).

That's about it from me, but if ARTA need someone to help design the fares structure and policies for their integrated ticketing system, I'm available !

LS

[matthew25187]

Christchurch's MetroCard has daily and weekly fare caps and free transfers for two hours. Concessions such as "10-trip" and month passes disappeared along with paper tickets when the MetroCard was introduced. With a weekly fare cap I don't see the need for concessions like the old monthly passes.

[Nick R]

So LS, are you the person to ask exactly why Mkyi will have 7 day and 28 to 365 day passes, but nothing in between? Why not simply have the option of passes from 7-28 days, priced according to the best periodical ticket.

Damn it, I want a fortnightly pass to auto top up on pay day! I don't care if it isn't any cheaper than two seven days, just let me buy it once a fortnight. Pleaaase!

[Loose_Shunter]

So LS, are you the person to ask exactly why Mkyi will have 7 day and 28 to 365 day passes, but nothing in between? Why not simply have the option of passes from 7-28 days, priced according to the best periodical ticket.

Damn it, I want a fortnightly pass to auto top up on pay day! I don't care if it isn't any cheaper than two seven days, just let me buy it once a fortnight. Pleaaase!

Nick, yes I am. There are sound reasons why the ticketing system is not a bespoke one. See my point above entitled Simplify the existing fares structure. The myki pass system mimics the current Metcard and V/Line fares structure (Weekly/7 day pass, Monthly/28-31 day pass, Date-to-Date/70-365 day pass and Yearly/365 day pass). Melbourne already has weekly tickets, so you could currently budget to buy two weekly Metcards on payday. Similarly with myki, you could auto top-up your card every week with 7-day passes or just transition over onto myki money. Put yourself in my shoes and ask yourself the question "Why introduce a new product and confuse people further? Why add further complexity to the ticketing system with new business rules and more to explain to the customer?" It's counter intuitive and while it may benefit you, it does not benefit the majority of travellers or the system as a whole. The ticketing system must provide the greatest good to the greatest number of users, not provide a whole heap of boutique and bespoke products that confuse the hell out of front line staff and the back-office processing systems.

Let's assume you live in a place that has 14-day tickets, like Sydney, the great PT basket case of Australasia. CityRail has introduced a 14-day ticket only on its network (not on the multi-modal Travelpass area or the private buses) largely as an admission of failure that a dis-integrated ticketing system and lack of off-system sales channels requires this periodical as a way of managing the horrendous ticket queues at stations, particularly on Monday mornings.

LS

[Nick R]

Put yourself in my shoes and ask yourself the question "Why introduce a new product and confuse people further? Why add further complexity to the ticketing system with new business rules and more to explain to the customer?" It's counter intuitive and while it may benefit you, it does not benefit the majority of travellers or the system as a whole.
LS

Yes I understand that they Myki structure will basically be a rollover of the existing metcard structure.

But ok you say why introduce a new product, why add further complexity. To that I ask what is more complex:
1) Having a series of short term periodicals, a 7 day pass plus the choice of any pass length between 28 and 365 days.
2) Having a series of short term periodicals, plus the choice of any pass length between 7 and 365 days.

To me getting rid of the 'black zone' between 7 and 28 days makes things more simple. It turns two fare products into one, it consolidates products to confuse people less in my opinion. Surely having one pass type instead of two means less to explain to the customer?

[Loose_Shunter]

NickR,

I think we've hi-jacked another Auckland thread in discussing Melbourne. Believe me, a 14-day pass ain't going to happen.

PM me to continue discussion on this subject.

LS

[Nick R]

Yeah I was already resigned to not having passes between 7 and 28 since I saw it on the website and printed materials already.

Sorry folks, back to Auckland. If we can gather anything from the above discussion of Myki I think it is the fact that any fare overhaul in Auckland should focus on simplicity with a minimum of fare products with a minimum opportunity for confusion over which fare product is the right one.

So how do we reconcile that with the fractured semi-commercial structure of the bus system , will it require the full force of the PTMA to implement?

And where exactly does the trade off lie between simple one-size-fits all fares, and matching the cost of travel to the amount of travel actually used?

[jarbury]

Thanks for that very well informed input LS.

I like the idea of fare caps too. My ticketing system would be based on having around 5 zones for Auckland.

Then you have the following option:

1) 2 hour ticket for x zones of travel (capped at the daily rate)
2) Daily ticket for x zones of travel (capped at the weekly rate)
3) Weekly/monthly ticket for x zones.

For making varying trip lengths you would have the card work out the best deal. So basically it's like stored cash that caps at either the daily level or the weekly level (if you do more than 5 days worth of travel).

For me, I usually catch 1 stage buses so probably I would "cap out" at whatever a weekly 1 zone costs. However, if I missed a day's work or (heaven forbid) drove to work one day then I would pay 4 daily rates. If I had to make a random return 4 zone trip then I would simply have one "4 zone daily" deducted from my running balance.

It sounds complex, but basically if your system advertises that the smartcard "Guarantees the Best Deal" (and actually does) then I think it's fine.

[Nick R]

The one issue I have with that sort of system is that it is simple for the card to work out the best fare and charge accordingly, but it might not be so easy for the person standing on the street to work out how much a trip they are about to take will cost. Thats another barrier to entry for the uninitiated (although it would certainly be easier the the mess we have now).

Having weekly type passes with particular zones kinda assumes that people are only going to use the transport to get to their regular job or study, and not for other random trips they might take.

[pickle]

The ideal fare structure is zero.

But not the realistic one

[Uroskin]

Any system involving price caps is not going to be supported by Fullers Ferries because it will affect their current monopoly ability to price gouge with impunity.

[Nick R]

Well assuming the PTMA holds they will have to play ball or lose their liscence to operate the route.... which could be a tricky situation given the island basically relies on them.

The other situation would be that Waiheke routes get lumped with ferries to the Barrier, trains to Hamilton etc as inter-regional routes that aren't part of the 'metro' system.

[pickle]

I wouldn't have Weekly or Monthly passes or anything like that
5 Zones: (A,B,C,D,E)
Paper tickets:
Choice of 2 hour or 24 hour
24 hour approximently twice the price of 2 hour pass
All fares end in 50 cents or $1 to allow for easy cash handling
Students and children have 50% discount off peak but will pay full fare during peak times
Seinors get 50% off, off peak but full fare during peak

Smart Card Tag on then tag off after first journey .It will calculate zones for you and charge you the 2 hour pass price with the discount (which be about 25% during peak hours and 50% off peak rounded to the nearest 50 cents). Free travel for all trips within the same zones for the next 2 hours. Travel again after that in that area of zones and you will be charged the 2 hour price again but can travel for free until Midnight. Extra trips outside that area and the 2 hour price will be charged and charged again after the 2 hours but can travel for free until midnight again . Once you have spent $30
Seinor, Student, Children cards would give a 25% during peak and the same discount offpeak (or free travel in the case of seinors) . Auto topups from either credit card or direct from bank account once balance hits $5 if you choose or manual topups
$5 fee to join
Extra RFID chips to go on phones or watches can be purchased for $5 extra for super easy transactions
You can use your card to pay for taxis, parking, tolls and fuel and small shop purchases at a 10% discount- this is designed to lure more infrequent users of public transport to get a card and may then start using public transport more.
I will post more later

[pickle]

Well assuming the PTMA holds they will have to play ball or lose their liscence to operate the route.... which could be a tricky situation given the island basically relies on them.

The other situation would be that Waiheke routes get lumped with ferries to the Barrier, trains to Hamilton etc as inter-regional routes that aren't part of the 'metro' system.

Those sorts of routes plus intercity and regional services right throughout the country (but not Waiheke which would be part of the metro system) you could buy tickets for and get a discount, but it would just be a discount along the lines of an AA rewards discount rather than a tag on tag off smart card system

[Loose_Shunter]

Thanks for that very well informed input LS.

Thanks Jarbury. There's no point in Auckland reinventing the wheel when there are useful models in other places.

I like the idea of fare caps too. My ticketing system would be based on having around 5 zones for Auckland.

Then you have the following option:

1) 2 hour ticket for x zones of travel (capped at the daily rate)
2) Daily ticket for x zones of travel (capped at the weekly rate)
3) Weekly/monthly ticket for x zones.

For making varying trip lengths you would have the card work out the best deal. So basically it's like stored cash that caps at either the daily level or the weekly level (if you do more than 5 days worth of travel).

And don't forget the cash fare option too. That provides the 'least best fare', but is available to tourists and others that don't want to purchase a smartcard. All stored value and pass fares should be discounted from the cash fare.

The one issue I have with that sort of system is that it is simple for the card to work out the best fare and charge accordingly, but it might not be so easy for the person standing on the street to work out how much a trip they are about to take will cost. Thats another barrier to entry for the uninitiated (although it would certainly be easier the the mess we have now).

Nick, the ticketing system can only do so much. The role of MAXX should be to provide that sort of customer information on fares and ticketing onboard vehicles (through decals and brochures), at stations (brochures and posters) and on their website so that people can do the sums themselves. For people who don't, there's always the cash fare which is the 'premium price' fare with no discounting. All stored value and pass fares should be discounted from the cash fare.

LS

[Nick R]

Nick, the ticketing system can only do so much. The role of MAXX should be to provide that sort of customer information on fares and ticketing onboard vehicles (through decals and brochures), at stations (brochures and posters) and on their website so that people can do the sums themselves. For people who don't, there's always the cash fare which is the 'premium price' fare with no discounting. All stored value and pass fares should be discounted from the cash fare.

LS

That was basically my point, I don't like the idea that a 'magic' smart card that calculate the best fare for the user after the fact is a solution to a complex and confusing fare structure. People need to be able to calculate the fare themselves before they travel. For this I would like to see the fare structure as simple as possible, but even then as you say customer information and communications are very important.