Puhoi-Wellsford SH1 Upgrade

[jarbury]

Did you guys actually read the report - it states quite clearly how the calculations were worked out.

http://transportblog.co.nz/wp-content/u ... ord-v2.pdf

[john-ston]

Did you guys actually read the report - it states quite clearly how the calculations were worked out.

As far as I can tell, some of the calculations were based on various other sources, and some of them were based on back of the envelope calculations (especially the wire median one).

My chief concern also is that this proposal aims to improve the existing alignment, which is pretty poor. At the very least, a new alignment needs to be secured, and to be honest, I can see value in extending the Northern Motorway as far as Warkworth.

[jarbury]

The cost of the wire medians was based on per kilometre cost of such barriers along SH1 in the Waikato.

[john-ston]

The cost of the wire medians was based on per kilometre cost of such barriers along SH1 in the Waikato.

Like I said, back of the envelope calculations - it is like my favoured use of Perth's Mandurah Line to estimate what the cost of each kilometre of track laying should roughly be.

[drosophila]

The cost of the wire medians was based on per kilometre cost of such barriers along SH1 in the Waikato.

Like I said, back of the envelope calculations - it is like my favoured use of Perth's Mandurah Line to estimate what the cost of each kilometre of track laying should roughly be.

Not at all, installing a wire barrier will be the same process and will cost the same wherever it is installed, constructing a railway line will always be different depending on where it's built.

[john-ston]

Something else I would point out; are wire medians really a good idea? There was an article some months back about the dangers that wire medians posed to motorcyclists (IIRC, the wire medians in that article were along the Centennial Highway).

[duddley]

those wire medians can bend by a few metres when hit and they slice motorcyclists in half. I was suprised to see them on the new sh20 extension

[Feijoa]

From The Northern Advocate: PM sees case for four lane highway

Prime Minister John Key has voiced support for State Highway One between Auckland and Whangarei becoming a four-lane road.

Rail might have a chance:

Upgrading the rail corridor to Northland was also important to the region's economy.

But he said while a rail link to Marsden Pt was not part of the main track and would generally be paid for by those using it, it might receive council and government funding at some stage.

[Matt L]

From The Northern Advocate: PM sees case for four lane highway

Prime Minister John Key has voiced support for State Highway One between Auckland and Whangarei becoming a four-lane road.

Rail might have a chance:

Upgrading the rail corridor to Northland was also important to the region's economy.

But he said while a rail link to Marsden Pt was not part of the main track and would generally be paid for by those using it, it might receive council and government funding at some stage.

Thats hardly a surprise, national will be the government for 2-3 terms, the first stage to Warkworth would finish sometime during the next labour led government and the Wellsford section would likely finish just at the end of that or the start of the the national government after that. National could then do what they did this time and say "Labour never did anything about carrying it on and now the road ends in a goat track so we have to upgrade the rest of the road"

[Daniel]

Just how busy is the highway between Auckland and Whangarei on a usual working day?

Is it the case with state highway 1 north of Wellington, where it's usually fine traffic wise except for holiday weekends and when there's an accident?

Because this is what I supect is driving public pressure for this and the other dopey transmission gully road; it actually only gets heavy traffic on those odd public holidays (which is mostly when these advocates use it).

Perhaps NZer's need to understand that heavy highway traffic on public holidays is pard-and-parcel?

[drosophila]

Just how busy is the highway between Auckland and Whangarei on a usual working day?

Is it the case with state highway 1 north of Wellington, where it's usually fine traffic wise except for holiday weekends and when there's an accident?

Because this is what I supect is driving public pressure for this and the other dopey transmission gully road; it actually only gets heavy traffic on those odd public holidays (which is mostly when these advocates use it).

Perhaps NZer's need to understand that heavily highway traffic on public holidays is pard-and-parcel?

The Gotthard Tunnel in Switzerland is backed up for hours and hours during long weekends, holidays etc - instead of demanding it to be widened, people simple take the train which is unaffected by the traffic. People accept that car = delays on holidays, trains = schedule as normal on holidays. Proposals to build a second tunnel have been blocked by referendum after referendum, something that I would love to see in NZ. Joyce would have to go with what the public wanted not what he and the National Party wants.

[jarbury]

Just how busy is the highway between Auckland and Whangarei on a usual working day?

Not that busy really. Annualised average daily traffic flows are about 15,000 vehicles between Puhoi and Warkworth and about 10,000 between Warkworth and Wellsford.

That's about the same as Sandringham Road as it goes past Eden Park.

[Daniel]

The Gotthard Tunnel in Switzerland is backed up for hours and hours during long weekends, holidays etc - instead of demanding it to be widened, people simple take the train which is unaffected by the traffic. People accept that car = delays on holidays, trains = schedule as normal on holidays. Proposals to build a second tunnel have been blocked by referendum after referendum, something that I would love to see in NZ. Joyce would have to go with what the public wanted not what he and the National Party wants.

And maybe they're being pacified by the knowledge of the new, world record holding high speed tunnel curently under construction.

Not that busy really. Annualised average daily traffic flows are about 15,000 vehicles between Puhoi and Warkworth and about 10,000 between Warkworth and Wellsford.

That's about the same as Sandringham Road as it goes past Eden Park.

I wonder what would happen if they built it and noticed the empty road they'd be spending so much money to maintain?

[Scott]

I wonder what would happen if they built it and noticed the empty road they'd be spending so much money to maintain?

I guess they would view it as a complete success. BMW's will no longer have to travel at 90km/h behind trucks. Lots of people assume maintenance costs are negligible (or don't even consider them). Strange the double standard we have where its fine for roads to be empty, but it is expected that trains/buses are constantly full.

[john-ston]

That's about the same as Sandringham Road as it goes past Eden Park.

The difference though is that Sandringham Road has four lanes, while State Highway One north of Puhoi only has two. The other major difference is that Sandringham Road is a relatively flat road and dead straight after Eden Park, while State Highway one north of Puhoi is a very hilly road and quite curvy.

Is it the case with state highway 1 north of Wellington, where it's usually fine traffic wise except for holiday weekends and when there's an accident?

Having travelled north of Wellington on a weekend that is not a holiday weekend, most of our troubles have been because of Levin and Otaki.

Because this is what I supect is driving public pressure for this and the other dopey transmission gully road; it actually only gets heavy traffic on those odd public holidays (which is mostly when these advocates use it).

Except that according to a local who wrote a letter into the Herald, State Highway One south of Warkworth gets congested on most weekends during the summer. I have personally experienced congestion on that section of road on a Sunday afternoon in the middle of November - it took us about 45 minutes to get from Warkworth through to Puhoi and that was because there was a truck in the very front slowing everyone down.

The Gotthard Tunnel in Switzerland is backed up for hours and hours during long weekends, holidays etc - instead of demanding it to be widened, people simple take the train which is unaffected by the traffic. People accept that car = delays on holidays, trains = schedule as normal on holidays. Proposals to build a second tunnel have been blocked by referendum after referendum, something that I would love to see in NZ. Joyce would have to go with what the public wanted not what he and the National Party wants.

The problem with the rail option is that the fastest a passenger train has done from Auckland to Wellington was five hours back in the 1950s and 1960s when the Fiats used to do that run. Most of the reason for the long journey was the meandering from Auckland to Wellsford via Helensville.

Also, I note that while everyone criticises this road, where is the criticism of the Kopu Bridge replacement? After all, that only gets congested on long weekends as well....

[Kalelovil]

Also, I note that while everyone criticises this road, where is the criticism of the Kopu Bridge replacement? After all, that only gets congested on long weekends as well....

Largely true, however:
The Kopu bridge is currently only one lane.
The project cost is 'only' $40 million.
The existing bridge does not meet current earthquake standards.

There hasn't been overwhelming support for the Kopu bridge replacement on this forum either; it is a case of picking the fights that matter most.

[Andrew]

The difference though is that Sandringham Road has four lanes

... uh, where?

Or are we counting the bus lanes? They don't count in this context because they don't affect the speed/congestion of general traffic and only operate for two hours a day each way.

[duddley]

the kopu bridge should have been replaced 20 years ago and JJ are you sure they did it in 5 hours? i thought the record was 8 and a half hours Auckland to Wellington

[john-ston]

the kopu bridge should have been replaced 20 years ago and JJ are you sure they did it in 5 hours? i thought the record was 8 and a half hours Auckland to Wellington

I meant Auckland to Whangarei

*hits head against brick wall

Or are we counting the bus lanes? They don't count in this context because they don't affect the speed/congestion of general traffic and only operate for two hours a day each way.

We are including the bus lanes because when they are not bus lanes, they can be used by general traffic - it is just that parked cars and turning cars impede access. Only some stretches of Sandringham Road are two lanes strictly speaking with parking bays on either side.

[Daniel]

Having travelled north of Wellington on a weekend that is not a holiday weekend, most of our troubles have been because of Levin and Otaki.

That's true. Those two in particular are severe bottlenecks in traffic flow and with Otaki it's exacerbated by the poor quality overbridge to the north. I've always been for the long planned improvement of SH1 between Raumati and the Foxton straights, but that's not that expensive and must have a high BCR. But I am strongly against Transmission Gully.

Except that according to a local who wrote a letter into the Herald, State Highway One south of Warkworth gets congested on most weekends during the summer.

Most letters written to Newspaper editors are from nutjobs, liars and people affiliated with political parties and interest groups (such as the Highway action trust).