Auckland Rail Electrification Project

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Re: Auckland Rail Electrification Project

Postby geoff_184 » Sun Jan 30, 2011 11:47 pm

Sunday pics:

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Ranui - Paremuka Reserve:
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Sturges Rd:
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Henderson:
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Re: Auckland Rail Electrification Project

Postby duddley » Mon Jan 31, 2011 7:45 am

Cg=heers for the photos Geoff!!!!, that 6 wheeler Hi rail truck and trailer looks like a pretty cool machine, is it owned by KR??
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Re: Auckland Rail Electrification Project

Postby Nick R » Mon Jan 31, 2011 11:39 am

Just wondering, how much of the suburban network still has wooden sleepers?
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Re: Auckland Rail Electrification Project

Postby geoff_184 » Mon Jan 31, 2011 2:29 pm

duddley wrote:...that 6 wheeler Hi rail truck and trailer looks like a pretty cool machine, is it owned by KR??


It's owned by Contract Landscapes Ltd (CLL). Both it, and KiwiRail's rail-based low loader, were built by Manco Engineering in East Tamaki.

Nick R wrote:Just wondering, how much of the suburban network still has wooden sleepers?


I would think about half? Mostly east and south, but still some sections of it out west.
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Re: Auckland Rail Electrification Project

Postby john-ston » Mon Jan 31, 2011 2:37 pm

geoff_184 wrote:No, the new style shelters were already decided by then.


That is interesting - I had always been informed that Ranui and Glen Innes were test stations, with the Glen Innes style station proving to be cheaper. I had also been told that the Ranui up platform having the same design as the Ranui down platform had come as a bit of a surprise.

geoff_184 wrote:A community development plan has nothing to do with NIMBYism. If anything, NZ needs a lot more of such planning. There's quite a bit about the plan here:


A "community development plan" that requires railway track owners to have special poles and special station designs at a much greater cost is not a good thing.
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Re: Auckland Rail Electrification Project

Postby Nick R » Mon Jan 31, 2011 2:40 pm

john-ston wrote:A "community development plan" that requires railway track owners to have special poles and special station designs at a much greater cost is not a good thing.


I think it is a fantastic thing. If only we could have higher standards of transport corridor urban design across all the communities of Auckland.
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Re: Auckland Rail Electrification Project

Postby geoff_184 » Mon Jan 31, 2011 8:30 pm

john-ston wrote:Wasn't the reason that Ranui got the round roofed shelter because it was part of a test between that type of shelter and the flat roofed shelter?


This is one of the street shelters dotted around Ranui. The basic requirements are round green poles and curved corrugated roof.

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Re: Auckland Rail Electrification Project

Postby Andrew » Mon Jan 31, 2011 8:39 pm

I don't think the Glen Innes/Papatoetoe structural design was used anywhere else. It's quite different - note the ceiling angles, different structure around the glass panels, and the I-beams visible at those two stations but not elsewhere.
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Re: Auckland Rail Electrification Project

Postby john-ston » Mon Jan 31, 2011 8:53 pm

Andrew wrote:I don't think the Glen Innes/Papatoetoe structural design was used anywhere else. It's quite different - note the ceiling angles, different structure around the glass panels, and the I-beams visible at those two stations but not elsewhere.


Presumably the standard design was modified later, likely to save on costs (Glen Innes cost $2 million to construct).

Nick R wrote:I think it is a fantastic thing. If only we could have higher standards of transport corridor urban design across all the communities of Auckland.


So on one hand, you want to be Scrooge like when it comes to the actual infrastructure, and on the other hand, you want to create transport corridors that look like palaces. I would rather have inexpensive looking transport corridors, but plenty of capacity because it is the capacity that counts.

geoff_184 wrote:This is one of the street shelters dotted around Ranui. The basic requirements are round green poles and curved corrugated roof.


The problem is that it proves little, apart from the designs look similar. Unfortunately the relevant information either way cannot be found on the web, presumably because with all the organisations changing over the last seven years the data has vanished.
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Re: Auckland Rail Electrification Project

Postby Andrew » Mon Jan 31, 2011 9:27 pm

I don't know about cost, the quality of design and materials seems to be better at the later stations than at Glen Innes and Papatoetoe (then called "Signature Stations" along with Ranui, being the first three station upgrades). The thin aluminium glass framing and the exposed I-beams looks tacky when compared to what was built later.
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Re: Auckland Rail Electrification Project

Postby Nick R » Mon Jan 31, 2011 11:09 pm

john-ston wrote:So on one hand, you want to be Scrooge like when it comes to the actual infrastructure, and on the other hand, you want to create transport corridors that look like palaces. I would rather have inexpensive looking transport corridors, but plenty of capacity because it is the capacity that counts.


Get some perspective JJ. No one ever said anything about palaces (what is this, the Moscow metro?!). A higher standard of design and finish in town centres would be a minimal cost over the basic industrial-functional finish. We are talking tens of thousands at most. There is a big difference between expecting some pleasant looking design at the station and demanding an extra billion dollars be spent on a railway tunnel that would sit unused for decades. As for capacity, the two tracks through Ranui can provide more capacity than Ranui will ever need, so I guess Ranui has the luxury of a tidy looking station.

Capacity doesn't mean anything if nobody will use that capacity. You may want to live in a place that has public facilities that resemble a concrete block and steel prison, but I imagine most people would actually like to live somewhere pleasant. Same thing goes for train stations. The old GI station could have had ten tracks through it and people would have still avoided it like the plague.
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Re: Auckland Rail Electrification Project

Postby luke96241 » Mon Jan 31, 2011 11:22 pm

Nick R wrote:Get some perspective JJ. No one ever said anything about palaces (what is this, the Moscow metro?!). A higher standard of design and finish in town centres would be a minimal cost over the basic industrial-functional finish. We are talking tens of thousands at most. There is a big difference between expecting some pleasant looking design at the station and demanding an extra billion dollars be spent on a railway tunnel that would sit unused for decades. As for capacity, the two tracks through Ranui can provide more capacity than Ranui will ever need, so I guess Ranui has the luxury of a tidy looking station.

Capacity doesn't mean anything if nobody will use that capacity. You may want to live in a place that has public facilities that resemble a concrete block and steel prison, but I imagine most people would actually like to live somewhere pleasant. Same thing goes for train stations. The old GI station could have had ten tracks through it and people would have still avoided it like the plague.


The people of the Hutt Valley, Johnsonville and Kapiti aren't complaining about similar poles.
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Re: Auckland Rail Electrification Project

Postby keg » Tue Feb 01, 2011 12:10 am

luke96241 wrote:The people of the Hutt Valley, Johnsonville and Kapiti aren't complaining about similar poles.
People are used to the overhead down here but its still some kind of new fangled thing up there. :lol:
(And in cases where portals are being replaced by masts and cantilevers the visual impact is reduced.)


I wonder whether painting the masts green would actually make them more obvious? (Particularly if its the glossy green used on the shelter in the photo Geoff posted). IMO the dull grey of weathered zinc blends in reasonably well against a number of different backgrounds and in different lights.
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Re: Auckland Rail Electrification Project

Postby Daniel » Sat Feb 05, 2011 11:39 am

I'd like to add my two cents as someone who's been a rail commuter in many different places for most of his life that in my opinion having attractive stations is a luxury well worth it, if it's affordable. It does make a difference if the station is quite nice and attractive like the Woburn station in Lower Hutt rather than some horrid cinder block monstrosity like the station at Wallaceville, Upper Hutt.

And that bus shelter previously pictured is nothing more than a cheap and nasty disgrace for a rainy city like Auckland as far as I'm concerned. Providing quality shelter at main bus stops should be a necessity and is not much more expensive.
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Re: Auckland Rail Electrification Project

Postby geoff_184 » Sat Feb 05, 2011 10:26 pm

It's a pedestrian shelter rather than a bus stop. Ranui Station Rd has two of them, but it isn't a regular bus route, other than the rail replacement buses, but they don't use them either.
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Re: Auckland Rail Electrification Project

Postby john-ston » Sat Feb 05, 2011 10:34 pm

Daniel wrote:I'd like to add my two cents as someone who's been a rail commuter in many different places for most of his life that in my opinion having attractive stations is a luxury well worth it, if it's affordable. It does make a difference if the station is quite nice and attractive like the Woburn station in Lower Hutt rather than some horrid cinder block monstrosity like the station at Wallaceville, Upper Hutt.


There is a difference between the old CMU block station shelters like what used to exist in many stations in Auckland and what exists now at the present.

Nick R wrote:Get some perspective JJ. No one ever said anything about palaces (what is this, the Moscow metro?!). A higher standard of design and finish in town centres would be a minimal cost over the basic industrial-functional finish. We are talking tens of thousands at most. There is a big difference between expecting some pleasant looking design at the station and demanding an extra billion dollars be spent on a railway tunnel that would sit unused for decades. As for capacity, the two tracks through Ranui can provide more capacity than Ranui will ever need, so I guess Ranui has the luxury of a tidy looking station.


There are dozens of tidy looking stations in Auckland - the current standard station design is tidy and good looking. Of course, if the demands of the community were really what determined Ranui's station design, then why on earth weren't the demands of the community adhered to when Meadowbank's Art Deco style station shelter was demolished in 2005?

keg wrote:I wonder whether painting the masts green would actually make them more obvious? (Particularly if its the glossy green used on the shelter in the photo Geoff posted). IMO the dull grey of weathered zinc blends in reasonably well against a number of different backgrounds and in different lights.


Agreed - you don't see people complaining about the look of lighting poles along our roads, and they are metal poles.
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Re: Auckland Rail Electrification Project

Postby geoff_184 » Sat Feb 05, 2011 11:01 pm

john-ston wrote:There are dozens of tidy looking stations in Auckland - the current standard station design is tidy and good looking. Of course, if the demands of the community were really what determined Ranui's station design, then why on earth weren't the demands of the community adhered to when Meadowbank's Art Deco style station shelter was demolished in 2005?


I don't recall an Art Deco station there. Wasn't it just one of those tacky concrete things built in the 60's?

But to answer your question, the Ranui Green Network requirements are incorporated into local planning. That is, the requirement is an official one required by council. The Green Network applies to specific roads, and the railway, only.

Meadowbank has no such requirement, but if there was for some strange reason, a council requirement for the railway station to consist of a tacky 1960's shelter with concrete seats, then AT/KiwiRail would indeed have to comply with the official requirement.
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Re: Auckland Rail Electrification Project

Postby john-ston » Sat Feb 05, 2011 11:14 pm

geoff_184 wrote:I don't recall an Art Deco station there. Wasn't it just one of those tacky concrete things built in the 60's?


Nope, the picture of the old station is in one of Sean Millar's books. I never saw it in real life, not enjoying an Auckland train ride until 2006, but it was definitely a wooden building and if I recall correctly was similar in style to the station building that once existed at Glen Innes Station (http://www.nzetc.org/etexts/Gov04_10Rail/Gov04_10Rail036a(h280).jpg).

I know that Orakei, Glen Innes and Panmure had CMU shelters, which were built later.
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Re: Auckland Rail Electrification Project

Postby geoff_184 » Mon Feb 07, 2011 1:02 am

Art Deco buildings are not wooden though.

This is an Art Deco building:

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All I remember from Meadowbank was the same style as Te Mahia and Westfield, so a wooden building must have been a long time ago?
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Re: Auckland Rail Electrification Project

Postby Nick R » Mon Feb 07, 2011 11:39 am

john-ston wrote:
geoff_184 wrote:I don't recall an Art Deco station there. Wasn't it just one of those tacky concrete things built in the 60's?


Nope, the picture of the old station is in one of Sean Millar's books. I never saw it in real life, not enjoying an Auckland train ride until 2006, but it was definitely a wooden building and if I recall correctly was similar in style to the station building that once existed at Glen Innes Station (http://www.nzetc.org/etexts/Gov04_10Rail/Gov04_10Rail036a(h280).jpg).

I know that Orakei, Glen Innes and Panmure had CMU shelters, which were built later.


The station in the linked picture certainly isn't Art Deco. And Geoff is right that there are very few wooden buildings in that style, they are mostly rendered brick.
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