SH18 Hobsonville Deviation Photos

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Re: SH18 Hobsonville Deviation Photos

Postby duddley » Sat Dec 17, 2011 3:08 pm

That would take for ever to get to Britomart, I would rather see a Busway down the side of the Northwestern with stations at Hobsonville, Westgate, Lincoln rd, Te Atatu,maybe Rosebank rd and Pt chev. It would be cheaper and provide faster journey times
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Re: SH18 Hobsonville Deviation Photos

Postby Nick R » Sat Dec 17, 2011 3:35 pm

rail_up wrote:To branch off slightly on this topic, I am presuming there are no plans for a rail link from the NAL to service the proposed new Westgate Centre?


You mean like the one proposed back in the 70s? Well lets run the thing right across the upper harbour to Constellation! Any why not the NW busway too?

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Re: SH18 Hobsonville Deviation Photos

Postby geoff_184 » Sat Dec 17, 2011 7:07 pm

IIRC, that 70's proposal (Robbie's rapid rail scheme) was to be standard gauge. I wonder what they had in mind for where it runs along existing rail corridors? Side by side tracks, or dual gauge?
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Re: SH18 Hobsonville Deviation Photos

Postby Nick R » Sat Dec 17, 2011 7:36 pm

geoff_184 wrote:IIRC, that 70's proposal (Robbie's rapid rail scheme) was to be standard gauge. I wonder what they had in mind for where it runs along existing rail corridors? Side by side tracks, or dual gauge?


I read through this report last week, basically they said suburban rapid rail of the type envisioned would be equally fine under existing or standard gauge. They presented cost estimates for both types, suggesting rolling stock would be cheaper and more easily purchased at standard gauge but that phasing in the upgrades would be cheaper with narrow. The end recommendation was to stick with the existing narrow gauge, even through the commuter network would eventually have been totally segregated from freight (or brand new lines) due to the four minute headways proposed.
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Re: SH18 Hobsonville Deviation Photos

Postby Daniel » Sat Dec 17, 2011 8:35 pm

Nick R wrote:
geoff_184 wrote:IIRC, that 70's proposal (Robbie's rapid rail scheme) was to be standard gauge. I wonder what they had in mind for where it runs along existing rail corridors? Side by side tracks, or dual gauge?


I read through this report last week, basically they said suburban rapid rail of the type envisioned would be equally fine under existing or standard gauge. They presented cost estimates for both types, suggesting rolling stock would be cheaper and more easily purchased at standard gauge but that phasing in the upgrades would be cheaper with narrow. The end recommendation was to stick with the existing narrow gauge, even through the commuter network would eventually have been totally segregated from freight (or brand new lines) due to the four minute headways proposed.
I was under the impression that it was to eventually become a "metro" style rapid transit for Auckland so I always assumed that it would eventually have its own corridors and unique infrastructure separate from the NZ railways mainlines and that they'd run the two parallel down the NIMT corridor.
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Re: SH18 Hobsonville Deviation Photos

Postby john-ston » Sun Dec 18, 2011 8:37 am

The 1974 Auckland Rapid Transit proposal would have used narrow gauge, with trains of either three-car or six-car. The proposal involved a large amount of triplication and quadruplication of the network. Interestingly, there is an uncanny similarity between the design of the units shown in that proposal and the design of the units that were built for Brisbane and I have always wondered if we might have ended up with something similar to Brisbane's EMUs had the scheme gone ahead.

Unfortunately, I think that it was in part that separation proposal which resulted in the demise of the scheme. The overall Auckland Rapid Transit scheme (that covered only what is now known as the Southern and Eastern Lines, and the Loop) was supposed to have cost $400 million - and this was in 1974 :o . Given the size of the budget deficit (that hit $1 billion in 1975), it is no surprise that the project was ultimately canned.

What is also interesting to note is the station spacing - none of this keep the stations that are hardly used and thus slow the trains down nonsense. If the Southern Line was only eight stations up to Newmarket (inclusive), then imagine the sort of speeds that would be achieved.
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Re: SH18 Hobsonville Deviation Photos

Postby Daniel » Sun Dec 18, 2011 10:22 am

john-ston wrote:Unfortunately, I think that it was in part that separation proposal which resulted in the demise of the scheme. The overall Auckland Rapid Transit scheme (that covered only what is now known as the Southern and Eastern Lines, and the Loop) was supposed to have cost $400 million - and this was in 1974 :o . Given the size of the budget deficit (that hit $1 billion in 1975), it is no surprise that the project was ultimately canned.
Yeah but, how much money did Muldoon chuck at Auckland's motorways and the think big projects and the rural subsurdies?

I know this is going off-topic by the way.
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Re: SH18 Hobsonville Deviation Photos

Postby Matt L » Sun Dec 18, 2011 12:01 pm

John-ston - yes things would be very quick, I plugged the distances and stops for the western, southern and airport lines into my speed calculator and all were in the 25-30 minute range.

Also based on general inflation $400m in 1974 equates to about $4b today
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Re: SH18 Hobsonville Deviation Photos

Postby john-ston » Sun Dec 18, 2011 1:52 pm

Daniel wrote:Yeah but, how much money did Muldoon chuck at Auckland's motorways and the think big projects and the rural subsurdies?


Think Big and motorway spending came later; virtually everything that the Third Labour Government was working on was suspended by Muldoon when he came into office in 1975 - and some of the projects took decades before they started up again (the Christchurch Southern Motorway and the Napier-Hastings Motorway spring to mind).

Matt L wrote:John-ston - yes things would be very quick, I plugged the distances and stops for the western, southern and airport lines into my speed calculator and all were in the 25-30 minute range.


I was going to send you a PM asking this, but I might as well ask you here - using your model, to achieve an average speed of 60km/h between point A and B, what would the distance between those two points need to be?

While on the topic of the 1970s, I am currently looking through an Interim Report from 1976 and it is interesting to see what was going through the minds of transport planners back then - a couple of their models saw no need for the Eastern Motorway (or the South-Eastern Motorway as they called it).
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Re: SH18 Hobsonville Deviation Photos

Postby Nick R » Sun Dec 18, 2011 4:18 pm

Daniel wrote:I was under the impression that it was to eventually become a "metro" style rapid transit for Auckland so I always assumed that it would eventually have its own corridors and unique infrastructure separate from the NZ railways mainlines and that they'd run the two parallel down the NIMT corridor.


Some lines would have been in their own new corridors, some in the existing main line corridors on separate tracks, but the end recommendation was to flag the standard gauge proposal and keep all the trains and infrastructure compatible with the main line.
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Re: SH18 Hobsonville Deviation Photos

Postby Matt L » Sun Dec 18, 2011 11:03 pm

john-ston wrote:
Matt L wrote:John-ston - yes things would be very quick, I plugged the distances and stops for the western, southern and airport lines into my speed calculator and all were in the 25-30 minute range.


I was going to send you a PM asking this, but I might as well ask you here - using your model, to achieve an average speed of 60km/h between point A and B, what would the distance between those two points need to be?

It depends as there is so many variables, but assuming a straight level section of track between a couple of stops with a dwell time of about 30 seconds and with a maximum line speed of 100kph then about 2.5km. My model estimates that we will see average speeds of around 40-50kph (depending on the line)
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Re: SH18 Hobsonville Deviation Photos

Postby john-ston » Mon Dec 19, 2011 5:19 pm

Matt L wrote:I was going to send you a PM asking this, but I might as well ask you here - using your model, to achieve an average speed of 60km/h between point A and B, what would the distance between those two points need to be?

It depends as there is so many variables, but assuming a straight level section of track between a couple of stops with a dwell time of about 30 seconds and with a maximum line speed of 100kph then about 2.5km. My model estimates that we will see average speeds of around 40-50kph (depending on the line)[/quote]

Thanks, I thought it was around the 2.5 to 3 kilometre mark.
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Re: SH18 Hobsonville Deviation Photos

Postby Riggles » Tue Feb 28, 2012 3:04 pm

They are starting work on a cool new pedestrian bridge over the SH16 motorway near the SH16/18 interchange which some of the preparation works were done during the Hobsonville Deviation Project.

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Re: SH18 Hobsonville Deviation Photos

Postby duddley » Fri Jun 28, 2013 1:11 pm

According to todays press release the sh18-sh1 intersection at Constellation drive is to be upgraded to a proper Motorway to Motorway link and therefore plugging the last piece of WRR with Motorway.
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Re: SH18 Hobsonville Deviation Photos

Postby locost_bryan » Fri Jun 28, 2013 2:07 pm

duddley wrote:According to todays press release the sh18-sh1 intersection at Constellation drive is to be upgraded to a proper Motorway to Motorway link and therefore plugging the last piece of WRR with Motorway.

That was already on NZTA's to-do list (along with widening SH1 Greville-Constellation and Manukau-Papakura) - all Key has done is tell them to do it sooner. :(
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Re: SH18 Hobsonville Deviation Photos

Postby duddley » Fri Jun 28, 2013 2:26 pm

I'm just happy because that piece of road frustrates the hell out of me. It goes from two lanes to one lane to two lanes to one lane and the back to two lanes combined with idiots who don't know how to merge.
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Re: SH18 Hobsonville Deviation Photos

Postby Ratchet » Fri Jun 28, 2013 3:29 pm

duddley wrote:I'm just happy because that piece of road frustrates the hell out of me. It goes from two lanes to one lane to two lanes to one lane and the back to two lanes combined with idiots who don't know how to merge.


More like idiots trying to race for the front of the queue and/or trying to break the 80km/h limit or assuming it's still a 50k zone even after Constellation Dr, vice versa.
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Re: SH18 Hobsonville Deviation Photos

Postby locost_bryan » Fri Jun 28, 2013 4:17 pm

Ratchet wrote:
duddley wrote:I'm just happy because that piece of road frustrates the hell out of me. It goes from two lanes to one lane to two lanes to one lane and the back to two lanes combined with idiots who don't know how to merge.


More like idiots trying to race for the front of the queue and/or trying to break the 80km/h limit or assuming it's still a 50k zone even after Constellation Dr, vice versa.

More like idiots who haven't noticed the 80km/h limit, or who meander from Paul Matthews to Caribbean without looking or signalling... :roll:
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Re: SH18 Hobsonville Deviation Photos

Postby Ratchet » Fri Jun 28, 2013 6:14 pm

And stopping at the left turnout of Paul Matthews to Upper Harbour Hwy eastbound where they aren't supposed to, as there's no give way sign from what I see everytime I drove by there. Just pull in and merge.

But aside from that, we'll expect to see more side roads to be closed or restricted as a result of removing traffic signaled intersections for the motorway extension.
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Re: SH18 Hobsonville Deviation Photos

Postby Matt L » Fri Jun 28, 2013 10:38 pm

$500m is a lot to make a line on a map look pretty
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