Rail upgrades

[greenwelly]

One thing I really don't like that Wellington is doing is putting in more pedestrian subways to get across the tracks like at Paraparaumu, I much prefer the over bridges that Auckland has been putting in at a few locations

Wellington extended one subway at Paraparaumu. Auckland built one at Kingsland, lets call it even.

[Matt L]

One thing I really don't like that Wellington is doing is putting in more pedestrian subways to get across the tracks like at Paraparaumu, I much prefer the over bridges that Auckland has been putting in at a few locations

Wellington extended one subway at Paraparaumu. Auckland built one at Kingsland, lets call it even.

Yes I was thinking that last night after I logged off however the Auckland one is only used for events, the rest of the time it is closed off and people need to use the existing over bridge

[Daniel]

Sounds like we've got some petty parochial rivalry going on. I hope I'm wrong.

Station design is one thing I think that Auckland is well outdoing Wellington on at the moment

Well aside from Waikanae there aren't any building/rebuilding of stations currently on the Wellington network is there? there was the Petone refurbishment a few years back and the demolition of Epuni but other than that?

[john-ston]

A couple of others have been shut and rebuilt - Redwood was one.

[Daniel]

A couple of others have been shut and rebuilt - Redwood was one.

There wasn't much at Redwood to begin with was there?

EDIT: misspelled begin as "being"

[kaiwhara]

I don't understand what you said Daniel, can you write that again please?

A couple of others have been shut and rebuilt - Redwood was one.

There wasn't much at Redwood to being with was there?

[Daniel]

I don't understand what you said Daniel, can you write that again please?

A couple of others have been shut and rebuilt - Redwood was one.

There wasn't much at Redwood to being with was there?

Well what I meant was that I remember it being just a couple of platforms (and not directly opposite each other). I don't remember any shelter or anything sort of structures.
Has my memory failed me?

[kaiwhara]

Redwood Southbound had a large concrete block shelter, the northbound had a small wooden box with a couple of windows.

[Matt L]

Sounds like we've got some petty parochial rivalry going on. I hope I'm wrong.

Yes you are wrong, as I said there are some things that Wellington is lucky for, like having space for three mains into Wellington Station and there are some things Auckland is doing well like station design. In the end I think it is more of an indictment of Auckland that things had to get so bad before they did any improvements

[W-hat]

Auckland is very good at building new stations that are comfortable with modern design and features that look nice. Auckland fails when it comes to track arrangements and station capacity. Wellington fails by having too many ghastly concrete block/bus shelter stations that are uncomfortable, lacking in features, but has better track arrangements and station capacity.

I hope that sometime Wellington gets around to replacing some of the absolutely horrible stations with something better.

[c46andc47]

Epuni was IMHO an attractive 1950s era station with a proper verandah that provided protection from the elements. The problem, as with most Wellington stations, was the lack of maintenance over many years. Instead retaining the verandahs and the basic building in an upgrade it was knocked down. What replaced it? Two pathetic and useless bus shelters and an "umbrella" over the subway steps.

The building that should be replaced with something new and open (for a variety of reasons) is Naenae. Unfortunately it cannot be knocked down because it is a historic building. I kid you not!

Ten or more years ago the Woburn building was partially destroyed by arson. The verandahs were retained and the surviving part of the building converted into a glass enclosed waiting room. It was attractive and provided really good protection from the elements. Unfortunately it did not take long for vandals to do their thing and the glass is long gone. The building is now quietly decaying but at least it has verandahs.

An upgrade that has worked is Petone. I believe that there are several reasons for this. Firstly it is manned from 0600 to 1230 Monday to Friday. Secondly it is sited next to a busy road and is clearly visible. Thirdly there are no schools nearby. Fourthly, the verandahs were retained, including the Troup 1905 structures on the down platform. Finally, although a subway or overbridge bridge must be used to move between platforms the station itself can be accessed directly without using a subway or overbridge. There is very little vandalism at Petone and the subway does not smell of urine.

[Daniel]

Redwood Southbound had a large concrete block shelter, the northbound had a small wooden box with a couple of windows.

Well I guess my memory fails me then.

[Daniel]

Sounds like we've got some petty parochial rivalry going on. I hope I'm wrong.

Yes you are wrong, as I said there are some things that Wellington is lucky for, like having space for three mains into Wellington Station and there are some things Auckland is doing well like station design. In the end I think it is more of an indictment of Auckland that things had to get so bad before they did any improvements

Well I'm glad I'm wrong, but I got the impression by the way things were worded.

Back on topic; the reason why Auckland is getting better stations is because the Auckland network is getting funding to get the stations. If any NZ government decided to spend the same sort of money improving the stations on the Wellington network then you'd see pretty similar stations there too.

Not sure why you prefer overbridges to tunnels. Sure they're usually cheaper and always harder to grafitti, but they're also exposed to the elements and usually have a lower capacity for pedestrian traffic. In my opinion either is better suited for whatever situation.

[Daniel]

Epuni was IMHO an attractive 1950s era station with a proper verandah that provided protection from the elements. The problem, as with most Wellington stations, was the lack of maintenance over many years. Instead retaining the verandahs and the basic building in an upgrade it was knocked down. What replaced it? Two pathetic and useless bus shelters and an "umbrella" over the subway steps.

Yes I was extremely annoyed to hear about that too. Apparently the old building (which was probably the best station on the Hutt line after the Wellington terminus and Waterloo) had a suspected asbestos hazard, so they took the cheapest option .

[john-ston]

Don't worry, something similar happened in Auckland - the graceful Art Deco shelter that used to be at Meadowbank Station was also bowled over.

Not sure why you prefer overbridges to tunnels. Sure they're usually cheaper and always harder to grafitti, but they're also exposed to the elements and usually have a lower capacity for pedestrian traffic. In my opinion either is better suited for whatever situation.

It comes more from a perceived safety viewpoint - people feel safer on an overbridge than they would in a tunnel. If you really want to deal with the elements situation, then cover over the bridge like what they have done for Ellerslie Station.

[Daniel]

It comes more from a perceived safety viewpoint - people feel safer on an overbridge than they would in a tunnel.

That's just perception though. Really when you think about it neither is any more dangerous than the other.

[greenwelly]

That's just perception though. Really when you think about it neither is any more dangerous than the other.

From the bottom of the stairs/up ramps you can generally see if there are group of people "loitering" on an overbridge or the corresponding ramps on the other side, whereas until you turn the corner at the bottom of the ramp, you have no idea if anyone is in the tunnel, or at the bottom of the "up ramp" on the other side.

[Daniel]

That's just perception though. Really when you think about it neither is any more dangerous than the other.

From the bottom of the stairs/up ramps you can generally see if there are group of people "loitering" on an overbridge or the corresponding ramps on the other side, whereas until you turn the corner at the bottom of the ramp, you have no idea if anyone is in the tunnel, or at the bottom of the "up ramp" on the other side.

Not necessarily, the ramping on overbridges can make it easy for people to hide on the other ramps up too, especially teenagers. Growing up using the Wellington network I also saw people get harassed on those overbridges. And even if you do see them, you're still trapped if the overbridge is the only exit.

How many people report suffering serious molestation in those tunnels?

[Scott]

That's just perception though. Really when you think about it neither is any more dangerous than the other.

Perception, i think is just as important as actual safety.

[edit] well, in an New Zealand context when your pretty safe anyway.

[john-ston]

Perception, i think is just as important as actual safety.

Agreed, there might be one abduction every year involving a child, but the perception is that if you let your child walk to school, some stranger will come up and take them away. Similarly, would people have taken the train at night in Auckland if services had been offered at that time ten or fifteen years ago?