Lambton Quay Best Street in NZ

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Re: Lambton Quay Best Street in NZ

Postby subria » Sat Jan 30, 2010 10:01 am

PBYCatalina wrote:If Lambton Quay was pedestrianised and buses rolled down Featherston St instead of Lambton Quay, your still going to have very good accesability and the bonus of better pedestrian environment in Lambton Quay that people will flock to.


And so you'll just end up making Featherston St into an even busier bi-directional road? Making it more difficult to get across to the waterfront? Removal of the majority of the street carparking in that area of the CBD - both Lambton Quay and Featherston St because it won't be wide enough if you intend to run buses with stops. No way you can make Featherston single or 1.5 lane each way because the stopped buses will block a lot of the road
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Re: Lambton Quay Best Street in NZ

Postby keg » Sat Jan 30, 2010 1:32 pm

Rail-it wrote:So is this thread saying that lambton quay has more pedestrians per day than queen st auckland?

I think so - not too sure whether I believe that though. What I think is more plausible is that the western side of Lambton Quay has a high pedestrian count than either side of Queen Street as the Quay is a very one sided main street.

Can anyone supply reasonably up to date data to settle this one way or the other? I did a bit of searching but didn't come up with figures for Lambton Quay more recent than 2007.

Some 2006 & 2007 figures for Wellington:
Code: Select all
Rank Shop and Address               Count 2007  Count 2006  Rank 2006
1    Jacqui-E (292 Lambton Quay)      2,771       2,873         2
2    Farmers (206-218 Lambton Quay)   2,756       2,767         3
3    Equip (280-290 Lambton Quay)     2,748       3,668         1
4    Westpac (318-324 Lambton Quay)   2,537       2,664         5
5    KFC (78 Manners Street)          2,507       2,319         9
(Source: Jones Lang LaSalle. 2008. Scoping Report for Segment of Golden Mile. [pdf]

Appendix 3 to the Gehl report also provide some interesting figures on hourly counts from 10am to 10pm at various locations around central Wellington, but these date from 2004.

I have found reference to a report called "Wellington City Council Transport Strategy Surveys - March 2008 Survey Results" which should contain the 2008 figures but cannot find a copy of it online.

This document shows the 2008 pedestrian counts for the Golden Mile between Willis Street and Courtenay Place. The figures for Willis Street near Lambton Quay are 2799 per hour on the western side and 1363 per hour on the eastern side (average per hour 1 noon-2pm weekdays).

Didn't find much about Queen Street that seem credible. There is this on Auckland City Councils website:
Accommodating pedestrians

All CBD users walk for at least part of their trip, for example to get to and from a train, bus, ferry or their parked car. As a result, the CBD has New Zealand's highest concentration of pedestrians - up to 6000 on Queen Street's footpaths during a typical weekday lunch hour. (This is both sides of the road at a number of locations on Queen Street, north of Victoria Street. The counts were undertaken on 29 April 2004 for one hour during lunchtime).


Seeming less credible are claims such as:
it boasts pedestrian counts up to 10 times higher than any other high street in the country
(Source) I'd want to see some pretty good data before I'd believe that.
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Re: Lambton Quay Best Street in NZ

Postby Brentaki » Sat Jan 30, 2010 9:06 pm

I think the concentration of employment in Wellington is the reason the pedestrian counts are so high. I can be hard to walk down during the day at time, especially when you have a 5 year old child with you!

I think if our decision makers get round to funding the CBD rail tunnel, pedestrian counts in Auckland will further increase as more people will be traveling by rail, so people will be in the city for longer (as they are not restricted to parking times). This will also improve access for more people to get to the CBD and the tunnel will help create a concentration of development as more people will want access to the rail and (hopefully Auckland city council should be planning to achieve this).

Where are 2,300 people going to walk when a bus is going down Manners Mall.................. But that's a different discussion.
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Re: Lambton Quay Best Street in NZ

Postby keg » Sat Jan 30, 2010 10:04 pm

Brentaki wrote:I think the concentration of employment in Wellington is the reason the pedestrian counts are so high. I can be hard to walk down during the day at time, especially when you have a 5 year old child with you!

Wellington isn't that far behind in terms of central area jobs - given the difference in urban populations that's not bad (386,000 vs 1,333,300 according Stats NZ 2009 subnational population estimates).

Brentaki wrote:Where are 2,300 people going to walk when a bus is going down Manners Mall.................. But that's a different discussion.

I'm sure people will cope. Where do ~3000 per hour walk in Manners St? Or 4000+ in the northern end of Willis St?

Bus congestion is probably more likely than pedestrian congestion as AFAIK the road will only be two lanes wide - including bus stops.
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Re: Lambton Quay Best Street in NZ

Postby PBYCatalina » Mon Feb 01, 2010 6:56 am

subria wrote:And so you'll just end up making Featherston St into an even busier bi-directional road? Making it more difficult to get across to the waterfront? Removal of the majority of the street carparking in that area of the CBD - both Lambton Quay and Featherston St because it won't be wide enough if you intend to run buses with stops. No way you can make Featherston single or 1.5 lane each way because the stopped buses will block a lot of the road


When I suggested featherston St I was thinking a bidirectional, bus lane only ,road with stops. And removing most the car parking as well. To me these are imporvements on the exisitng situation as you will end up with a fantastic new mall on lambton quay, impoved access to the harbour along waring taylor, brandon, panama etc and a quicker bus route with improved priority. Add to that less cars in the CBD and its a winner all round.
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Re: Lambton Quay Best Street in NZ

Postby subria » Mon Feb 01, 2010 8:37 am

PBYCatalina wrote:When I suggested featherston St I was thinking a bidirectional, bus lane only ,road with stops. And removing most the car parking as well. To me these are imporvements on the exisitng situation as you will end up with a fantastic new mall on lambton quay, impoved access to the harbour along waring taylor, brandon, panama etc and a quicker bus route with improved priority. Add to that less cars in the CBD and its a winner all round.


Can't see there being improved access to the Waterfront if you remove two roads and move all traffic to the Waterloo Quay. Sure you could reduce the amount of lanes down the Quays, but you'd have to make damn well sure it's got somewhere to go - which would have to be the Urban motorway and that's capacity limited at this time.
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Re: Lambton Quay Best Street in NZ

Postby Brentaki » Mon Feb 01, 2010 5:03 pm

Today a group of Walkers has right of way to go down Lambton Quay for their national walk (not really completely sure), but there was a row of 8 buses waiting to get into Lambton Quay from Willis Street, most of which were full at the time (I hope no one was planning on getting onto a train at the other end).

I strongly support the use of these parades etc but with buses running down Lambton Quay presently, it is causing a clash of interest. Not everyone can have the limited road space of this wonderful street
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Re: Lambton Quay Best Street in NZ

Postby PBYCatalina » Wed Feb 03, 2010 1:17 pm

Did a random count again on Lambton Quay.
71 people in 60 seconds outside Whitcoulls at about 1:20pm.
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Re: Lambton Quay Best Street in NZ

Postby PBYCatalina » Thu Feb 11, 2010 1:14 pm

Did an adhoc St count again today while waiting outside whitcoulls just after 1pm.
68 people in 60 seconds. Not bad considering it is a bit drizzly, there is No AC/DC concert on and I couldnt see any cruise ships in port!
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Re: Lambton Quay Best Street in NZ

Postby subria » Thu Feb 11, 2010 2:10 pm

Pretty sure there's a cruise ship or some large tourist group around - there were quite a few shuttle buses around as well as the odd tourist coach.
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Re: Lambton Quay Best Street in NZ

Postby PBYCatalina » Fri Mar 19, 2010 9:21 am

Does anybody have the stats at hand of how many buses go through lambton quay at peak times?
And how many passengers area carried during peak times?
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Re: Lambton Quay Best Street in NZ

Postby LX... » Fri Mar 19, 2010 10:55 am

The Central Area Bus Operational Review says up to 124 buses per hour in the AM peak southbound. It also says 12,448 people in the AM peak period (2 hours) as being on buses.

http://www.gw.govt.nz/assets/Transport/Public-transport/Docs/Bus-Operational-Review-Final-for-GWRC2.pdf
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Re: Lambton Quay Best Street in NZ

Postby PBYCatalina » Fri Mar 19, 2010 2:39 pm

Choice one Bro. Thanks for the stats and the reference.
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Re: Lambton Quay Best Street in NZ

Postby Daniel » Tue Mar 30, 2010 10:46 pm

Rail-it wrote:So is this thread saying that lambton quay has more pedestrians per day than queen st auckland?
Um, yes I would say that.

Queen Street's pretty dead in comparison.
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Re: Lambton Quay Best Street in NZ

Postby LX... » Thu Apr 01, 2010 3:47 pm

Depending on the source Lambton Quay seems to have the highest retail rents in NZ. http://www.colliers.com/Corporate/News/Semi-Annual%20Retail%205-14-09 Although I have seen other reports that shown lower Queen St being comparable to Lambton Quay.

Basically Lambton Quay is ahead of many US main streets but behind Australian main streets.

Why do rents matter? They reflect the volume of foot traffic and spending power of that foot traffic on a street. Generally the more successful a street the more rent that can be charged.
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Re: Lambton Quay Best Street in NZ

Postby Nick R » Thu Apr 01, 2010 4:00 pm

I think you'll find that rents in lower Queen will have risen sharply in the last year or so with the completion of several developments really lifting the areas game. For example there is now a Louis Vitton boutique where the $2 shop used to be (no shit), and a Prada one next door.

Not to say that foot traffic has necessarily risen though, but anyone who thinks Queen St is pretty dead hasn't been there on a workday during lunchtime or the evening peak (it is relatively quiet on weekends when it is just the shopping crowd around).
I should still listen to Doloras.
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Re: Lambton Quay Best Street in NZ

Postby john-ston » Thu Apr 01, 2010 10:44 pm

Nick R wrote:I think you'll find that rents in lower Queen will have risen sharply in the last year or so with the completion of several developments really lifting the areas game. For example there is now a Louis Vitton boutique where the $2 shop used to be (no shit), and a Prada one next door.


I would agree with Nick on that point; a lot of the stamp dealers have shut their CBD operations because of the rents going up. A coin dealer that used to be in Achilles House has now shifted to Greys Avenue, and the National Business Review's office is there now :lol:

Remember also that Lambton Quay is the main retailing street in Wellington; Auckland also has High Street, Chancery Street and that area as a retailing area.
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Re: Lambton Quay Best Street in NZ

Postby The King » Fri May 28, 2010 11:20 am

Now here's a proposal I agree with, the idea to get rid of both cars and buses is absolutely ridiculous!
Call to ban private cars from Golden Mile within 20 years
By TOM FITZSIMONS - The Dominion Post

Private cars should be banned from the Golden Mile within 10 to 20 years, Wellington Mayor Kerry Prendergast says.

She wants the shopping and entertainment corridor devoted to a "premium public-transport route" – featuring European-style electric buses or light rail.

Removing cars would also make the city more pedestrian-friendly.

She would exclude retail vehicles and courier vans from the move, as well as taxis, which were a "form of public transport".

http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/lo ... n-20-years

The bus route would be a lot less congested this way especially through parts like Courtenay Place and around Willis Street. And with cars removed, there could be modifications to streets removing some carparks and lanes creating more pedestrian space.

However, I disagree with allowing taxis, they seem to create the most trouble - parking and stopping illegally and making dangerous turns. I find them a nuisance.
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Re: Lambton Quay Best Street in NZ

Postby PBYCatalina » Fri May 28, 2010 1:30 pm

Kerry seems to be talking in the same direction as Sir Bob, is there going to be an alignment before the election?

I am so in support of this idea, If you took out the car lanes and just left 2 lanes for a public transport route, you would have so much pedestrian space and Lambton Quay could truely challenge for the best street status. I like how they refer to quality public transport but dont put all the eggs in the light rail or trolley bus basket yet.
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Re: Lambton Quay Best Street in NZ

Postby Nick R » Fri May 28, 2010 6:18 pm

Taxis really aren't public transport, they are no different from any other private car in terms of congestion and impacts on the environment. And while they are publicly hireable, they are privately hired for exclusive use at any one time.

The are indeed very useful and probably should get some special provisions in city centres (taxi ranks for example, even taxi-only streets in some cases) but I don't agree with automatically letting them use bus lanes and the like because functionally they are very different beasts from buses.
I should still listen to Doloras.
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