Capital Connection Under Threat

[keg]

Although the Silver Fern was only analysed as a Waikanae to Palmerston North run. How about as a Palmerston North to Wellington run

Wondered about that, could improve things for Levin as it would make it relatively cheap to stop in the centre of town (reseal the old Queen St railcar platform, basic shelter, signage) - better site the the current station on the edge of town in an industrial area. Possible others stops on the cheap too. Whether any of this would make any difference ...

2. Ask to be able to engage a third party for an alternative pricing proposal for the hook-and-tow locomotive. I understand that Steam Incorporated have two Das that might just fit the bill. Remember that with the right maintenance, diesel engines can last indefinitely. It is the locomotive chassis frames that determine the life of the locomotive and Steam Incorporated's Das' frames should be in pretty good nick. There has been talk that KR want to release the DX regularly rostered for this service to the South Island so it may actually suit them. There is talk that KR are charging freight rates also for locomotives. Therefore it may well be best for all to release this locomotive for freight use.

Interesting idea, and I suppose the Plimmerton DJ's might be possibilities as well? The DJ's didn't suffer from excessive frame strain, with their Bo-Bo-Bo arrangement, light weight and short life. 97km/h max speed though, but that'll probably suffice.

Don't DA and DJ locos require a second person in the cab due to the restricted foward visability?

[DFT7008]

or maybe 2xdc> and last time i did the trip all the way only 40 People go all the way to PALMERSTON NORTH with dxc 5402 on the front

[Rail-it]

or maybe 2xdc> and last time i did the trip all the way only 40 People go all the way to PALMERSTON NORTH with dxc 5402 on the front

A bus load... won't be any good if that becomes regular or average.

[c46andc47]

or maybe 2xdc> and last time i did the trip all the way only 40 People go all the way to PALMERSTON NORTH with dxc 5402 on the front

A bus load... won't be any good if that becomes regular or average.

I think that that has always been the number of passengers from Palmerston North. AFAIK the majority of the CC's passengers board at Otaki and Waikanae. That is why the loss of the Waikanae passengers is of concern.

But then you must ask (for example) how many passengers go all the way to Upper Hutt on a peak EMU express service. A significant number would get off at Waterloo and a smaller number at Taita.

[eurokiwi78]

I cant see how the service could grow its numbers without adding services. There is a limited number of people for which one train a day actually meets there needs.

And with EMUs getting now running to Waikanae some of the former CC passengers from Otaki or Levin might now be driving to Waikanae and catching those services instead due to the much more frequent timetable.

Would be interesting to see how many people use the 290 Bus from Otaki in conjunction with Tranz Metro services.

[MichaelBennet]

I caught the Capital Connection last week and was quite surprised at the number of passengers that boarded at Waikanae as well as Paraparaumu. I'm guessing they like the extra leg room as well as the extra space to be able to fire up the laptop and get a bit of work done. Perhaps TranzScenic's restructuring of price has helped capture a bit more of that market. Pay a premium to travel on the CC, but get a bit more comfort on the way to work and back. On the way back there were also plenty of people getting off at both those stations too which was quite surprising. Being a friday night there were a few from those stations who were having a casual drink with mates on the way home being social, which is a real no no on Tranzmetro.

It would be a shame to see the service gone, really it's quite amazing that the thing even runs without a subsidy as it is. Does anyone know of any commuter train that is not subsidised?

Michael

[PBYCatalina]

fair enough... citations should be given...

But hypothetically, lets say the capital connection has been losing money and there was a large sum of additional funding required or else it would be pulled. What would be the argumetns if any for the Councils and NZTA throwing extra cash at the service?

http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/wairarapa/6939470/Axe-hovers-over-Capital-Connection
Sad news... looks like the capital connection will be lost.

[geoff_184]

Sad news... looks like the capital connection will be lost.

Once the notion of using ratepayer money for long distance trains was put out there, this outcome was probably inevitable. There's a chance the councils will fund it, but I think it's more likely that councils at both ends will not want to fund an out of region service.

I assume InterCity run a service that passengers could switch to? If not, they might see an opportunity, and start a bus on a similar timetable.

[pickle]

Sorry Geoff I really fail to see what your saying. The CBT advocating for a new service from Hamilton to Auckland causes Kiwirail to announce that they want rate payer funding to fund the Wellington - Palmerston North service just doesn't make sense. By your logic we can take "Kiwirail never thought of the idea of rate payers subsidies until CBT suggested it for another compltety different service and they got the idea of it." Sorry but that completely lacks any credibility. The service has clearly experienced a small drop in patronage and Kiwirail has used it as an excuse to can it because they / the government do not like passenger rail.

[geoff_184]

The service has clearly experienced a small drop in patronage and Kiwirail has used it as an excuse to can it because they / the government do not like passenger rail.

And the subsidy ploy gives them the exit they want. It's no coincidence that the process began at the same point that the campaign was pushing the concept. My prediction was 100% bang on.

[MichaelBennet]

The service has clearly experienced a small drop in patronage and Kiwirail has used it as an excuse to can it because they / the government do not like passenger rail.

And the subsidy ploy gives them the exit they want. It's no coincidence that the process began at the same point that the campaign was pushing the concept. My prediction was 100% bang on.

It would be a real shame to lose the Capital Connection which is not subsidised, yet over the hills, Masterton still retains its fantastic subsidised service

Not sure where the Masterton line would be without its subsidies though, perhaps one long train a day just like the capital connection.

Michael

[scooter]

The service has clearly experienced a small drop in patronage and Kiwirail has used it as an excuse to can it because they / the government do not like passenger rail.

And the subsidy ploy gives them the exit they want. It's no coincidence that the process began at the same point that the campaign was pushing the concept. My prediction was 100% bang on.

It would be a real shame to lose the Capital Connection which is not subsidised, yet over the hills, Masterton still retains its fantastic subsidised service

Not sure where the Masterton line would be without its subsidies though, perhaps one long train a day just like the capital connection.

Michael

Maybe that would be the case. Maybe Masterton and the southern Wairarapa just plain got lucky with the regional boundaries

[geoff_184]

I would say two trains to Wellington in the morning, and two back in the evening. No daytime service to Masterton, nor weekend services.

When did the subsidies start for those trains, and what services did they have at that time?

[Kalelovil]

Maybe that would be the case. Maybe Masterton and the southern Wairarapa just plain got lucky with the regional boundaries

Although that could be set to change over the next few years:
http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/ne ... tep-closer

"A major shake-up of local government in Wairarapa looms with a high-level report recommending a single council.
Whether that be a single Wairarapa Unitary Authority or a Wairarapa District Council is still to be determined, with the report concluding that more detailed analysis is needed on the costs, benefits and risks of the two options.
...
The Wairarapa unitary authority option would see the three Wairarapa councils form a single council that was responsible for all regional functions and services within its area.
..."

[kaiwhara]

Thats not set to replace GWRC in the Wairarapa as far as i could tell, so that shouldnt affect Public Transport...

[Kalelovil]

Thats not set to replace GWRC in the Wairarapa as far as i could tell, so that shouldnt affect Public Transport...

If it becomes a Unitary authority it will.

[kaiwhara]

I havn't seen any detailed analysis as yet, but From what I understood it was only to combine the Masterton, Carterton and South Wairarapa District Councils, and had nothing whatsoever to do with GWRC's position...

[Kalelovil]

I havn't seen any detailed analysis as yet, but From what I understood it was only to combine the Masterton, Carterton and South Wairarapa District Councils, and had nothing whatsoever to do with GWRC's position...

According to the article I posted, that is one of two options being seriously considered.

The other option is for the Wairarapa to become a Unitary authority and presumably devolve from GWRC. They would become like Nelson.

[john-ston]

The other option is for the Wairarapa to become a Unitary authority and presumably devolve from GWRC. They would become like Nelson.

Or Auckland.

In terms of Geoff's argument, as the resident prophet of doom and gloom around here, I would actually argue that the Waikato Trains campaign had next to nothing to do with the Kiwi Rail plan to shut down the Capital Connection - prior to Waikanae opening, it was known that the Capital Connection was barely making a profit and the loss of all those Waikanae passengers would have probably tipped the service from profitable to loss making. Indeed, I have the funny feeling that this cancellation is related to the new revamped Overlander - a way to get rolling stock is to shut the Capital Connection.

The unfortunate thing is that Kiwi Rail aren't using their heads on this one - surely, the Silver Fern doing the Capital Connection would have been profitable, given that the thing sips through fuel.

Another thing Geoff, you comment that back in the 1990s when the Capital Connection had fewer passengers, it was making a profit. I would note not only back then were less grunty locomotives used, but fuel was between one-fifth and one-tenth the price. Multiply the amount of fuel used by a factor of five to ten, and see that things are quite different now to what they might have been in 1995.

EDIT: Added the words "is to shut the Capital Connection" at the end of the second paragraph.

[eurokiwi78]

I dont think the CBT campaign had anything to do with it either, When David Jackson was CEO Toll angled for a subsidy to keep running the Overlander so the precedent of asking and threatening had already been established.