Rotorua Branch Railway Leased to RNRT

[rail_up]

Given that there is now a company running a tourist operation on the line, does this mean there is no future for rail transport?

The Rotorua Ngongotaha Rail Trust have a fixed term lease on the line but currently the only commercial services using it are Rail Riders who have a license to operate rail services. The Trust has previously stated their hope that freight and heritage passenger rail services some day return to the line.

Thank you for clarifying that. There is light at the end of the tunnel...

I am sure that Rotorua will, in years to come, regret the decisions they've made to date.

What is happening and has happened to the Rotorua Branch with regards to its central city terminus has happened before. For example, the former Southbridge Branch line used to run under a road overbridge on Springs Road into Prebbleton before continuing on to the centrally-located station in Lincoln. After it no longer had a use for the line, and denying a request to use the line for heritage rail services, NZR pulled up the track back to north of Prebbleton and sold off the remaining corridor land. The road overbridge was later demolished. Now should passenger rail ever return to Christchurch, what could have been an opportunity to include two growing population centres into such a network is gone. The history of rail in New Zealand is replete with many examples of squandered or otherwise lost opportunities.

Agreed absolutely. The question now is, with the benefit of hindsight, how do we stop these things happening again?

As far as passenger transport goes I would doubt if locomotive hauled trains would be any more fuel efficient than a modern road coach.

For sure. I would not be suggesting that passenger trains were advantageous, but moving freight is certainly good sense.

[Jonthekiwi]

Agreed absolutely. The question now is, with the benefit of hindsight, how do we stop these things happening again?

Answer: Vote in pro-rail Governments and local bodies.

[geoff_184]

Answer: Vote in pro-rail Governments and local bodies.

You can't mean Labour, as they were in power when the Rotorua Branch was closed. Not to mention they failed to reopen it when they formed Ontrack, and failed to reopen it again when they formed KiwiRail. There also hasn't been a peep out of them over the current Gisborne line threat. So that's Labour ruled out.

I'm not aware of any political party with a policy of ending KiwiRail's status as an SOE, which is what would be required for them to adopt non-commercial policies such as financially backing lines unable to recover their costs.

So who do you have in mind Jon? Who should we vote for to get KiwiRail re-focused as a non-commercial entity?

As for local bodies - We voted Len in to get three new lines built in three periods of five years. So far he hasn't started any of them. And how is Celia doing in Wellington with her light rail to the airport, which she campaigned on? Nope, nothing happening there either! Let's face it, local bodies have very little say in such things. New Zealand's political system isn't designed to give councils any real power, and what powers they do have for such non core activities are about to be greatly reduced thanks to the current government. Len and Celia will both end their reign without starting on any of their promised projects. I guarantee it.

[Kalelovil]

Answer: Vote in pro-rail Governments and local bodies.

There also hasn't been a peep out of them over the current Gisborne line threat. So that's Labour ruled out.

http://www.gisborneherald.co.nz/article/?id=27214

http://labour.org.nz/node/4425

[john-ston]

So who do you have in mind Jon? Who should we vote for to get KiwiRail re-focused as a non-commercial entity?

My guess is the Green Party, but that will come with the side effect of making pot legal.

[pcuser42]

As for local bodies - We voted Len in to get three new lines built in three periods of five years. So far he hasn't started any of them.

Have you noticed the Government isn't aware of the benefits of any of them and thus refusing to fund them?

[john-ston]

Have you noticed the Government isn't aware of the benefits of any of them and thus refusing to fund them?

You know, Len could do one of the following to get funds for it:

- Sell Ports of Auckland
- Sell the shares in Auckland Airport
- Increase rates
- Sell other assets
- Reduce spending

Unfortunately, it seems that keeping unproductive assets is far more important to Council than constructing the CBD Loop.

[eurokiwi78]

- Sell Ports of Auckland
- Sell the shares in Auckland Airport

How much would these two sales generate?

[john-ston]

How much would these two sales generate?

Auckland Airport could generate around half a billion; and Ports of Auckland - that is anyones guess. Agreed that it will not completely cover the costs of the loop, but it would definitely be a substantial down payment.

[eurokiwi78]

That has to be the way to go.

[Rail-it]

That has to be the way to go.

Well you better explain to our business leaders.
http://nz.news.yahoo.com/a/-/top-stories/13373299/business-group-in-favour-of-motorway-tolls/
I'd be in for the toll myself.

[Rail-it]

So who do you have in mind Jon? Who should we vote for to get KiwiRail re-focused as a non-commercial entity?

My guess is the Green Party, but that will come with the side effect of making pot legal.

I think they may be beyond those days now john'ston.

[john-ston]

Well you better explain to our business leaders.
http://nz.news.yahoo.com/a/-/top-stories/13373299/business-group-in-favour-of-motorway-tolls/
I'd be in for the toll myself.

Tolls would completely wreck the public transport system - a huge number of people that currently use the motorway system would instead be using local roads and that would congest them even more than now - that would create almighty snarl-ups that buses would get stuck in.

My preferred solution would be for government to fund it through the savings received by scrapping Working for Families.

I think they may be beyond those days now john'ston.

Maybe they aren't so vocal about it, but it is still undoubtedly on their agenda. I find it somewhat amusing that the left criticised John Key for announcing privatisation even though so many people were opposed to it in the polls when they legalised prostitution even though so many people were opposed to that in the polls - and unlike Key, they never campaigned on legalising prostitution either.

[Rail-it]

Well you better explain to our business leaders.
http://nz.news.yahoo.com/a/-/top-stories/13373299/business-group-in-favour-of-motorway-tolls/
I'd be in for the toll myself.

Tolls would completely wreck the public transport system - a huge number of people that currently use the motorway system would instead be using local roads and that would congest them even more than now - that would create almighty snarl-ups that buses would get stuck in.

My preferred solution would be for government to fund it through the savings received by scrapping Working for Families.

If all those uers went to local roads, well they going to be even later for work too then aren't they. And if my boss was backing such a scheme I would expect he pays the toll via my wages if he wants me to use my vehicle.

There obviously needs to be some sought of adjusment to working for families, but thats social services, not transport.

[john-ston]

If all those uers went to local roads, well they going to be even later for work too then aren't they.

Alternately, they would be leaving home earlier.

And if my boss was backing such a scheme I would expect he pays the toll via my wages if he wants me to use my vehicle.

Would the bosses of Auckland really want to back such a scheme though?

There obviously needs to be some sought of adjusment to working for families, but thats social services, not transport.

While the spending is currently on social services, that money could be spent on transport.

[Rail-it]

If all those uers went to local roads, well they going to be even later for work too then aren't they.

Alternately, they would be leaving home earlier.

Well either $2 or leave home a lot earlier. I know what i'd opt for(if there's no train on that route!!lol).

And if my boss was backing such a scheme I would expect he pays the toll via my wages if he wants me to use my vehicle.

Would the bosses of Auckland really want to back such a scheme though?

According to the news article at yahoo xtra news this morning yes. Auckland Council's Business Advisory Panel chairman Cameron Brewer gives the reasons.

There obviously needs to be some sought of adjusment to working for families, but thats social services, not transport.

While the spending is currently on social services, that money could be spent on transport.

I think we have plenty of other areas of concern within soical services where money allocated for family should or could be spent. Keeping it under government control though, those funds may result in a surplus at some stage in tax payer funds which then could be re directed elsewhere couldn't they? I'm not saying destroyin working for families with that, but looking at the fairness of the structure of it. It seems to me that the slightly above average wage earner is paying for the below average wage earner, when it should be the top income earners paying for it!!!

[PurelyNuts01]

Ok gentlemen I am going to have to call time out here ok? We seem to be going WAY off topic to what the original thread was about.

May I suggest moving the Business Supports Tolls to the Auckland Transport Discussion Thread and welfare spending in an off topic piece

Taking a look at the Yahoo piece - HA! AKT beat them to the punch on that one (Jon is still around behind the scenes )

[royce]

Do they have working for families in Australia. I know a couple of failed New Zealand families who have moved over and they have told me they are eligible for a top up over there which is even more generous than they were on here. I also seem to remember when Helen and Michael introduced it in New Zealand it is was a copy of what was happening in Australia. Is that right. I think our politician copy a lot of legislation from them and then pretend it was their own idea.

[Kalelovil]

Do they have working for families in Australia. I know a couple of failed New Zealand families who have moved over and they have told me they are eligible for a top up over there which is even more generous than they were on here. I also seem to remember when Helen and Michael introduced it in New Zealand it is was a copy of what was happening in Australia. Is that right. I think our politician copy a lot of legislation from them and then pretend it was their own idea.

http://www.familyassist.gov.au/payments ... it-part-a/
http://www.familyassist.gov.au/payments ... lement.php
http://www.taxpayersassociation.com.au/ ... ffset.html

[eurokiwi78]

The Lake Road rail overbridge at Rotorua has now been demolished:

http://www.rotoruadailypost.co.nz/news/ ... r/1326666/

The track is being lifted across the site of the new road where the bridge previously stood and will be terminated on the north side of the road. KiwiRail will still own the corridor across into the old Koutu yard but there will be no level crossing.

Heck, talk about making a mark in the sand! Pretty darn obvious where Rotorua's loyalties lie and they certainly aren't with rail.

Given that there is now a company running a tourist operation on the line, does this mean there is no future for rail transport?
Does this tourist operator have a fixed lease or is their use of the line indefinite?

I've lived in towns (or near them) that have no railway, and it's just not the same. There's something missing.
I am sure that Rotorua will, in years to come, regret the decisions they've made to date. I wouldn't mind betting we'll see another oil crisis before
too long and any city in this country that's not served by rail is going to struggle when the trucks are off the roads.

Isnt there quite a contrast between Gisborne and Rotorua when it comes to there threatened rail lines status?

I have serious doubt the Gisborne line will survive (and certainly not without the local council stumping up some cash) but at least they 'want' continued rail infrastructure. Rotorua it seems they dont give a damn or find it more of a hinderance. Why is there such a difference in attitude.