Rotorua Rail service

[Jonthekiwi]

Did any of you hear the interview on Radio NZ yesterday afternoon with the spokesman for the Geyserland Express Trust? Unfortunately he did not come across very well on the radio, as he didn't seem to engage in too much conversation with Noelle McCarthy. Shame as they really need the public and local/regional/central govt interest to re-open the line.

This is important for Auckland rail issues, as it would serve for another destination that could be served from Britomart. The more links, the more demand for better railways in NZ. Additionally, it could remove perhaps 40+ trucks a day on the highway, as there are hundreds to and fro from the city of Rotorua.

The Campaign For Better Transport has made the most submissions in favour of re-establishing the Rotorua line and passenger services out of anyone or body to the Environment Waikato in their recent Waikato Regional Rail Draft Discussion Document.

Perhaps the Geyserland Express Trust should join with the CBT? Both groups have similar goals and a unified approach would be beneficial?

[royce]

I didnt hear the interview so I am not sure what the purpose of opening the Roturua branch and reinstating the Geyserland Express would fill. Perhaps we could have a situation similar to the Tairei Gorge railway where a local body and volunteers could setup a private railway connected to the National system. I imagine it would be a rather slow speed one but maybe this would be alright from a tourist and day tripper perspective.
As far as having Kiwirail and government money involved I would be skeptical that it would happen in the currant climate.
We havn't heard from Kiwi rail as to wether it is managing to break even let alone making a profit yet. I suspect that this information would have to be released shortly. Toll released very little information throughout its tenure. We also dont know what sort of railway Kiwirail intends to run. If they are just proposing to continue with the status qoe it would seem to me that there would be very little chance of sufficient freight being availiable to reopen the branch. I suspect that Kiwirail will be forced to broaden the type of traffic it is prepared to cart anyway if it is to become viable so perhaps there is some hope. I wonder if they intend to have any trucks or if the will stay out of the so called freight forwarding business. Perhaps there is some hope we will just have to wait and see.A link with CBT may help it couldnt be a bad thing.

[Jonthekiwi]

One point to remember, there is MORE freight going into Rotorua today in 2009 than there was 1975, 85 or 95...so I never believe the lines of insufficient freight. What KiwiRail rightly needs to do to carry a broader range of freight than what the Beard Era (Error) of TranzRail or Toll decided to move by rail.

[Chris R]

The problem with Rotorua is that the line ends at a freight terminal outside town and the ROW into the original station in town has been built over.

Also vandals have stolen a large number of sleepers from the line in the Mamakus. It all adds up to what is probably a complete relaying of the line only to dump the pax miles away from where they want to go.

If the money ever comes available it is not a bad idea, but there are other projects that are probably more important.

If I was to prioritise a list of rail expenditure this is what I would have.

1. Upgrade the NIMT to allow higher speeds/heavier loads
2. Upgrade the ECMT to allow higher axle loads
3. Buy new higher powered traction power to take advantage of 1 and 2.
4. Resignal the West Coast line to allow more efficient working.
5. Electrify the Otira Tunnel
6. Upgrade the Stratford-Okahukura line
7. Introduce a Hamilton commuter service
8. Revive the Rotorua line

Comments please - keep it civil....

[john-ston]

The problem with Rotorua is that the line ends at a freight terminal outside town and the ROW into the original station in town has been built over.

Also vandals have stolen a large number of sleepers from the line in the Mamakus. It all adds up to what is probably a complete relaying of the line only to dump the pax miles away from where they want to go.

If the money ever comes available it is not a bad idea, but there are other projects that are probably more important.

If I was to prioritise a list of rail expenditure this is what I would have.

1. Upgrade the NIMT to allow higher speeds/heavier loads
2. Upgrade the ECMT to allow higher axle loads
3. Buy new higher powered traction power to take advantage of 1 and 2.
4. Resignal the West Coast line to allow more efficient working.
5. Electrify the Otira Tunnel
6. Upgrade the Stratford-Okahukura line
7. Introduce a Hamilton commuter service
8. Revive the Rotorua line

Comments please - keep it civil....

Chris, you are fortunate - I am in a civil mood today, and anyways, I largely agree with what you are saying. Here would be my list of non-urban rail priorities

1) I would investigate having a larger loading gauge - to be frank, the existing loading gauge is far too small in my opinion
2) I would give the Napier to Gisborne Line five years to increase freight loads. If that fails, the line goes
3) Upgrade the Auckland to Tauranga route for higher axle loads, higher speeds and construct longer passing loops. Investigate whether duplication of the ECMT may be needed in places. Also, look at upgrading the alignment to allow for 160kph running
4) With that, purchase the higher powered traction power, and introduce passenger services to Hamilton & Tauranga to take advantage of the 160kph running
5) Upgrade the axle loads and speeds of various lines as appropriate - probably the next section would be Wellington to Palmerston North, with the possibility of duplication.

IMHO, lines should not be revived unless there is a good basis for them. Rotorua doesn't have that good basis yet, and I would much rather see money spent in upgrading the existing non-urban rail system.

[Nick R]

The problem with Rotorua is that the line ends at a freight terminal outside town and the ROW into the original station in town has been built over.

The old station is sure gone (now a pak 'n save carpark I believe), but the right of way still exists all the way into town. They could relay the city section track and build an new station two blocks back from the old location without much hassle.

While maybe not a national priority, an Auckland to Rotorua service could be quite popular with the right kind of marketing to the large tourist base that Rotorua attracts. After all the most successful long distance train in NZ is the Trans Alpine, due entirely to the tourist market.

[geoff_184]

2) I would give the Napier to Gisborne Line five years to increase freight loads. If that fails, the line goes

And then ten years later along comes a previously unforseen reason for needing the line, where boards like this then have threads about how the idiots ripped up the infrastructure.

If a line is not needed it should be mothballed, not removed.

Not to mention the costing done a few years back to remove the Napier-Gisborne line was ruled to be prohibitively expensive anyway. Was costed in the tens of millions.

[geoff_184]

It all adds up to what is probably a complete relaying of the line only to dump the pax miles away from where they want to go.

A couple of kilometres all up I believe. That still leaves the line roughly 95% intact. From what I've seen in pics it looks in good shape. Had it been in use all these years, it would still be largely the same rails and sleepers. They don't deteriorate any faster by not being used, in fact their life is prolonged through disuse.

Just needs a good weed spray for the most part, a few slips fixed up, drains cleared, and missing track relayed, although the railfan group running on the line at present aims to do some of that anyway.

G.

[john-ston]

And then ten years later along comes a previously unforseen reason for needing the line, where boards like this then have threads about how the idiots ripped up the infrastructure.

If a line is not needed it should be mothballed, not removed.

Not to mention the costing done a few years back to remove the Napier-Gisborne line was ruled to be prohibitively expensive anyway. Was costed in the tens of millions.

Where did I say rip up the line? I merely said, the line goes; and following what seems to have become a tradition in New Zealand these days, I would advocate merely mothballing it - I don't see the point in removing the line.

[royce]

I am hoping traffic will improve on the Napier Gisborne line to an acceptable level and that mothballing or ripping it out will not need to be considered. I think that Kiwirail should consider how it runs its two forestry lines ie Kinlieth and Kawerau Murapara along with the Napier Gisborne line. We all know there should be a through line between the Bay of Plenty and the East Coast however we all know this is extremely unlikely to happen. I would like them to consider having lifting gear in place at Gisborne Murapara Kinlieth and Kawerau so that freight can be transfered from road to rail.This would need to be able to lift the maximium road limit containers with a margin to spare in case heavier trucks are legalised.
Increasingly logs are being carted in containers. I am also confident that Solid Energies wood Pallet business will take off and wood waste will be an increasing traffic. Containers of other freight could be transferred onto road and shipped between the bay and plenty and eithier Gisborne or Hastings as necessary. Having lifting gear ready to go at the various termini would give a level of confidence that is lacking at the moment.Kinlieth and Kawerau have shunts and adding a few wagons of other freight to the forestry trains should not cause problems. Kiwirail should at least look as though it is trying to run a railway. If it could make a success off this maybe they could look at reopening Roturua and Taneatua.

[Jonthekiwi]

If National needs an infrastracture projects that can be started tomorrow.... re-open the Rotorua line!

It would give local contractors work for about 18 to 24 months to have it cleared, repaired and ready to go.

Rotorua, Putaruru and environs residents would be employed for all manner of things, and get through the current tightening economic climate. It would also give KiwiRail another bow to for it's arrows!

[CI5Agent]

Re-opening the Rotorua line is a must and would be an ideal candidate for one of the Governments proposed economic stimulus infrastructure projects.

The problem is, those at Ontrack and KiwiRail who are in a position to make this happen, have closed minds to ideas such as this. The same old managers are still there with the same old ideas and have been there from Toll Rail, Tranz Rail and NZ Rail days. They don't want to build or buy anything new unless someone else will pay for it. And as the old saying goes, you have to spend money to make money.

One would think with KiwiRail being just being a railway company now, their focus would be to go out searching for rail business in order to stay viable.

A city the size of Rotorua would have sufficient container/ general freight traffic going in and out of it every day between Auckland, Hamilton and Rotorua to justify a daily freight train service. Perhaps KiwiRail needs to talk to Mainfreight or Toll about joint arrangements of shifting their freight on the longer routes such as this by rail and then transhipping it onto their trucks at the other end. I recall Mainfreight used to send a lot of it's freight by rail in the NZ Rail days and there was even a Mainfreight depot in the Koutu rail yard at Rotorua.

Then there is all the forestry logging traffic in the Rotorua region. Rail is ideal for carrying that sort of freight.

The Koutu rail yard could be redeveloped into a modern container transfer/ log loading yard and perhaps a new entrance to the site could be created on Biak Street to the west of the yard. If they were to buy the property between the rail yard and the Biak Street/ Waterford Street intersection, there would be a direct link ideal for trucks, between Old Taupo Road, where there is a roundabout with the Waterford Street intersection, and the rail yard.

Ontrack still owns the rail corridor, which is still just as it was when the track was lifted 1989/90, between the Koutu yard and Pukuatua Street. Land Information NZ (the old Lands and Survey Department) own the rest of the old rail corridor between Pukuatua Street and Ranolf Street.

The land on the corner of Ranolf Street and Amohau Street (Sheaff Park) would be ideal for a rail passenger station and was rezoned by the Rotorua District Council for rail passenger in 1995. This site is right across the road from the old central city rail yard, which is now a shopping centre. The passenger station didn't get built in the end because the RDC didn't want to commit a large amount of ratepayer money to a new railway station when Tranz rail wouldn't guarantee they would keep running the then twice daily silver fern railcar Geyserland Express service.

It would only require relaying 2km of track, all the corridor is in place and the Sheaff Park site is an ideal attractive site for a rail passenger station in the heart of central Rotorua.

[Chris R]

There is a portion in the middle of the route where the local low life have stolen the sleepers.....

[CI5Agent]

A passenger train service to Rotorua could possibly be made up utilising the old Silver Star carriages at A and G Price Thames. There are four passenger cars and two power vans sitting there. They are owned by the Simplon Orient Express Company in the UK and they have no plans to do anything with them at this stage. Perhaps KiwiRail or Environment Waikato could buy them and rebuild them into comfortable modern long distance carriages hauled by DFT locos?

The turntable recently removed from the Auckland yard could perhaps be relocated and installed at Rotorua to enable single locos to run on the Rotorua branch and be turned around at Rotorua.

Consideration should also be made to extend the Rotorua branch south to Taupo. This could be done by extending the line south of Koutu and then have it run through the old Telecom workshops site, then swing west through the reserve land on Pererika Street near the Rotorua Boys High School and then swing south again along the eastern side of Old Taupo Road. All the properties all the eastern side of Old Taupo Road would need to be purchased to create a rail corridor. The line would then follow the western side of SH5 south through the Hemo Gorge to Waipa and south to Taupo via Waiotapu, Reporoa and Broadlands, terminating at a new big rail yard beside the Taupo mill on Centennial Drive.

Traffic sources for a Taupo line could include the Waipa and Taupo mills, the large dairy factory at Reporoa, logging traffic and general container freight traffic. Almost the entire route of the line will be on relatively flat land with no major bridges and adjacent to plantation pine forests, including the largest man made plantation forest in the world - the Kaingaroa Forest.

The proposed East Taupo bypass (SH1) will run past the Taupo mill on Centennial Drive and a road-rail container transfer site could perhaps be established here as well.

A new line into the Bay of Plenty to link Rotorua and Taupo with the Port of Tauranga could be built between Ngongotaha and Te Puke.

[jarbury]

Wow some pretty grand plans there. While I'm all in favour of regenerating our railway infrastructure, I can't help but think this one is going to be reasonably down the priority list. If Ontrack is smart though they will be looking at places where new rail routes can make them money through freight. I remember reading a few articles last year that said rail freight is booming, particularly because of Fonterra.

[royce]

I think we are talking about financial stimulus here. The stimulus is needed now not 6 month or 12 months away. This is why the Nat government backed down on the threat to curtail spending on state housing even though it is idealogically against it . Anything that can be started within the next couple of months is what is needed. I quite liked the greens idea of the housing insulation. This would be able to be started imediately employing those tradesmen and women who have been building houses in the housing boom. What do tradesmen do in an economic downturn? They eithier go to Australia or the go on the dole and do cashy jobs on the side meaning we miss out on the tax revenue eithier way. Anyway I think that Ontrack is on a bit of a roll here so if there is one job that could be started straight away its is opening the Roturua branch.Even John Banks is impressed with the effort on the Auckland network over the christmas break. Kiwirail and the government should be talking with Mainfreight, Owens, Daily freight, Peter Breaker and Toll Tranz Link about reopening the Branch.(These are the so called freight forwarders who presently have
sidings in the Auckland area.) In addition Fonterra Reporoa site and whoever owns the Waipa Mill now should be approached to see if they could provide additional tonnage. Trans shipment by road between Roturua and Gisborne and Hasting has happened in the past and is another possibilty. I am not sure that the passenger side can be econically provided by a carriage train though. Maybe the Ferns could be used. Ontrack will probably have sufficient rail salvaged fron the Auckland refurbishment to replace the stolen sections.

[NZLcyclist]

So does anyone here have a way to voice any of these ideas to the people in power? Or as usual with forums will the ideas just sit on the internet for anyone but them to see

[CI5Agent]

So does anyone here have a way to voice any of these ideas to the people in power? Or as usual with forums will the ideas just sit on the internet for anyone but them to see

Write letters to the various ministers or local MPs, write letters to the regional councils and write letters to editors of both national and local newspapers. The more people that do this, the more likely it is to happen. And if everyone is singing the same tune so to speak, it strengthens the argument.

[royce]

I wonder how much it cost to reopen for freight wouldnt be a lot I suppose especially cause it wouldnt actually need to be high speed.

[Jonthekiwi]

Yes, guys, spend 3 minutes online and send letters to the local and national newspapers. Yesterday I sent a letter to the Rotorua Daily Post and Northern Advocate. Both these regions are missing out on good rail services. Northland needs the Marsden Point link built, and all the planning has been completed...just needs National's OK to start tomorrow.

Rotorua has the simplist one of all. It would take 18 to 24 months to re-open the line, replace rails, upgrade certain sections for higher running speed and building a new passenger station. Imagine, this would immediately employ hundreds of contractors and suppliers in a region that will be hard hit by unemployment.

So all - write your thoughts to local papers, their details are online so google them. If you are pro Rotorua line, then The Daily Post in Rotorua and Dom Post/Herald. Northern Advocate and Herald for Marsden Point/ Okaihau line builds. Otago Daily TImes for pro pax trains in Dunedin etc...

One thing...DO IT!