Port of Tauranga to take 50% stake in Port of Timaru

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Re: Port of Tauranga to take 50% stake in Port of Timaru

Postby Gerald Petrie » Thu Mar 06, 2014 9:07 pm

One possible place for Lyttelton's inland port is the wedge shaped piece of land on Main South Road just as you enter Rolleston from the north.
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The site has various advantages;
- it is long and thin (about 1.4km long).
- no roads have to be crossed to enter it.
- it will have great access to the proposed Christchurch Southern Motorway. Below is the proposed Weedons Ross Road interchange.
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Interestingly, this wedge shaped site is opposite the site of the former Weedons Station.
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This level crossing is Weedons Ross Road. To the right of the Dx is the site of the former Weedons Yard.
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It is probably inevitable, that either the Rolleston loop will be extended, or the line back to Islington will be re-duplicated. Presently, the double track of Rolleston loop stops at the 31km peg, which is about half way along the wedge shaped site.
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Re: Port of Tauranga to take 50% stake in Port of Timaru

Postby Gibbo » Fri Mar 07, 2014 6:19 pm

Gerald Petrie wrote:One possible place for Lyttelton's inland port is the wedge shaped piece of land on Main South Road just as you enter Rolleston from the north.


Yes I see from the link below that Lyttelton's inland port will be "within a couple of km of Timaru's", so your pick of the site at the north end would appear to be just about spot-on!

http://www.stuff.co.nz/southland-times/ ... -Rolleston

Like most port related changes I see pluses & minuses in all this Rolleston development. Firstly we can expect Timaru to make an aggressive pitch to win back Fonterras trade & so KR & Lyttleton stand to loose this, however their inland port will hopefully even that out with other traffic (even better Lyttleton gets to keep the Fonterra traffic!).

The build-up of Timaru shipping will see traffic to/from that immediate area go back thru Timaru port rather than being sent by rail or road to Lyttleton & Port Chalmers, so the boost of traffic KR have enjoyed to those other 2 ports since Timaru lost services, will be lost to rail. But then of course new traffic maybe drawn to Timaru that didn't previously go thru there & rail could stand to gain some of that.

Lyttleton's move makes a lot of sense & complements not only their Woolston site, but also the huge commercial growth in the Rollseston area. Hopefully Canterbury businesses will start using both Rolleston inland ports with a vengance!

The only concern I have is KR will have to ensure they maximise wagon utilisation by focusing on good turn-around times because both runs from Rolleston to either port are relatively short (esp. Lyttleton) & they can't afford to tie-up 100's of wagons with them sitting most of the day & only making only 1-2 return runs a day.

Soooo many unknowns, but I suspect the cumulative effects of these changes will be at the very least marginally beneficial to KR, if not a real boost.
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Re: Port of Tauranga to take 50% stake in Port of Timaru

Postby Gibbo » Fri Mar 07, 2014 6:42 pm

Kahukowhai wrote:And then maybe the folly of singling Islington-Rolleston will become apparent.

Although we are in a more fortunate position than Dunedin. Their single track line between Dunedin and Mosgiel was doubled at great expense 100 years ago. About 30 years ago some moron that the double track embankment on sections of it should be replaced with a new single track embankment and bridges. Although the route is now carrying record traffic due to the Fonterra development at Taieri the reinstatement of double track over the whole section would be an extremely expensive process as most of the spare space has been taken over a motorway (sound familiar?)


Would I be right in assuming (from Google maps) there's about 7km of single line between Islington & Rolleston? If so I suspect that's a bit too far to make the capital outlay of double-tracking (again) worthwhile, but that single-line section certainly has the potential to become a problem (assuming the coalies remain which in turn depends on coal markets & Solid Energy's fortunes etc!).

Given it seems neither inland port will be at the old yard site, is there any part the old Rolleston yard could play in this - is there much yard trackage left? I guess at the very least, to keep costs down, the unused yard rails could be lifted from Rolleston (if available) & laid into the 2 inland ports.

In order to avoid blocking Westland's siding & loop, I had wondered if Westland's head-shunt pointing towards Rolleston proper could've been extended (at KR's cost) to run parallel to the Midland line & actually into the old Rolleston yard, but having looked at it again it's probably more effective to install the loop as suggested for coalies to get around any new siding into Timarus new site & allow Westland's siding to be operated as it currently is.

'Old-time' thinking probably would've been to have all sidings feed into Rolleston yard & have that as a marshalling yard for Westland & both inland ports, but that doesn't seem to be the way these days, and would probably get overloaded & congested.
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Rolleston Triangle

Postby Gerald Petrie » Tue Mar 11, 2014 9:12 am

]The story of the laying of the Rolleston Triangle begins with this memo.
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One wonders what they mean by heavier engine - I speculate up until that time they had been using tank engines on the run, and now tender engines were desired.
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The drawing below is dated 1901.
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This drawing is dated 1917.
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And this one is dated 1918.
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In anticipation of the completion of the Otira Tunnel many improvements were made to the Midland line. I don't know them all, but they included the Springfield deviation, extending of loops at Moana, construction of Moana Footbridge, signalling improvements on the West Coast and the construction of Elmer Lane Locomotive Depot. Rolleston was to get some money spent on it too.
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The dark blue lines were the proposed re-arrangements; whether any or all of the improvements actually happened, I cannot vouch.
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Re: Port of Tauranga to take 50% stake in Port of Timaru

Postby locost_bryan » Wed Mar 12, 2014 2:33 pm

Gibbo wrote:The only concern I have is KR will have to ensure they maximise wagon utilisation by focusing on good turn-around times because both runs from Rolleston to either port are relatively short (esp. Lyttleton) & they can't afford to tie-up 100's of wagons with them sitting most of the day & only making only 1-2 return runs a day.

That sounds similar to Auckland's port shunts - iirc similar distance, with eight shunts per week. PoAL have been talking about a further doubling of rail movements Rail set to play larger role at Ports of Auckland.
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Re: Port of Tauranga to take 50% stake in Port of Timaru

Postby Gerald Petrie » Thu Mar 13, 2014 8:33 am

Gibbo wrote:Lyttleton's move makes a lot of sense & complements not only their Woolston site, but also the huge commercial growth in the Rollseston area. Hopefully Canterbury businesses will start using both Rolleston inland ports with a vengance!

The only concern I have is KR will have to ensure they maximise wagon utilisation by focusing on good turn-around times because both runs from Rolleston to either port are relatively short (esp. Lyttleton) & they can't afford to tie-up 100's of wagons with them sitting most of the day & only making only 1-2 return runs a day.


I think the natural thing to do is extend the run of the Lyttelton Shunt (on an as required basis). Essentially it is a shuttle of flat-tops that runs from Middleton to Lyttelton and services the Lyttelton Harbour Board siding at Woolston (formerly know as New Zealand Express). I imagine Auckland has a similar shuttle between the port and Otahuhu Yard?

The investment we are witnessing at Rolleston is a natural, and inevitable retaliation to the closure of virtually every public siding north of Ashburton. Logs however can still be loaded at Hornby. Auckland and Wellington have similar issues, in the respect there are very few places where you can load freight onto rail.

In Christchurch you basically have to use a freight forwarder;- Toll, Mainfreight, Daily Freight, Owens, Peter Baker and Mainstream Freight. I understand Linfox has been sniffing around, looking for a decent site beside the railway - they have a big warehousing operation at Hornby. Watch this space.

The dominant player in freight forwarding is Toll, and they probably have the best site - Middleton (for now, that is). However, they will be watching all this investment at Rolleston, and by Peter Baker and Mainfreight at Sockburn with wariness. It is not a good feeling to watch your competitors grow. I wonder if they feel marginalized and perhaps not in control of their own destiny. Watch this space.

With regards to Rolleston Yard, all the land was sold off, and the blue gums felled. For instance in the future if the Midland leg of the triangle had to be double tracked, the second line would have to be laid inside the existing leg.

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I think there is enough room to add a short loop or two at Rolleston, but the site has limitations.
Last edited by Gerald Petrie on Thu Mar 13, 2014 11:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Port of Tauranga to take 50% stake in Port of Timaru

Postby Kahukowhai » Thu Mar 13, 2014 11:23 am

Is Hornby still loading logs?

I know they did last time I was out there about 5 years ago.

Gerald Petrie wrote:
Gibbo wrote:Lyttleton's move makes a lot of sense & complements not only their Woolston site, but also the huge commercial growth in the Rollseston area. Hopefully Canterbury businesses will start using both Rolleston inland ports with a vengance!

The only concern I have is KR will have to ensure they maximise wagon utilisation by focusing on good turn-around times because both runs from Rolleston to either port are relatively short (esp. Lyttleton) & they can't afford to tie-up 100's of wagons with them sitting most of the day & only making only 1-2 return runs a day.


I think the natural thing to do is extend the run of the Lyttelton Shunt (on an as required basis). Essentially it is a shuttle of flat-tops that runs from Middleton to Lyttelton and services the Lyttelton Harbour Board siding at Woolston (formerly know as New Zealand Express). I imagine Auckland has a similar shuttle between the port and Otahuhu Yard?

The investment we are witnessing at Rolleston is a natural, and inevitable retaliation to the closure of virtually every public siding north of Ashburton. Logs however can still be loaded at Hornby. Auckland and Wellington have similar issues, in the respect there are very few places where you can load freight onto rail.

In Christchurch you basically have to use a freight forwarder;- Toll, Mainfreight, Daily Freight, Owens, Peter Baker and Mainstream Freight. I understand Linfox has been sniffing around, looking for a decent site beside the railway - they have a big warehousing operation at Hornby. Watch this space.

The dominant player in freight forwarding is Toll, and they probably have the best site - Middleton (for now, that is). However, they will be watching all this investment at Rolleston, and by Peter Baker and Mainfreight at Sockburn with wariness. It is not a good feeling to watch your competitors grow. I wonder if they feel marginalized and perhaps not in control of their own destiny. Watch this space.

With regards to Hornby Yard, all the land was sold off, and the blue gums felled. For instance in the future if the Midland leg of the triangle had to be double tracked, the second line would have to be laid inside the existing leg.

Image

Image

I think there is enough room to add a short loop or two at Rolleston, but the site has limitations.
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Re: Port of Tauranga to take 50% stake in Port of Timaru

Postby Gerald Petrie » Wed Mar 26, 2014 7:51 pm

I've heard it from two different sources now - Kiwirail is costing what it would take to reinstate the double track from Islington to Rolleston. It does not necessarily mean it will happen, but at least they've taken the first step. What's driving it is the combination of coal trains and the new Lyttelton inland port, which will without question be the biggest container yard in the South Island, and probably south of Tauranga for that matter.

The single track starts at the 22.5km peg and ends at the 31km peg, a distance of 8.5km. However, look at the photos below. Both are taken from the north looking south. You will note the Rolleston loop is on the opposite side to the second main at Islington.
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This is Islington - the yellow 22.5km peg can be seen in the grass off to the left.

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This is the north end of the Rolleston loop.

This anomaly was created when the line was single tracked, when facing south it was the left hand main that was lifted, and the Rolleston loop was lengthened northwards out of Rolleston yard by at least a kilometre.

So the question has to be asked, will any reinstatement of double track include the relaying of the left hand main all the way to Rolleston, an extra 1.5 kilometres.

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The siding on the right is what remains of Rolleston Yard.

The same market forces mentioned above are putting pressure on another bottleneck. Located between the Durham Street overbridge and Montreal Street, this section of single track was installed as a cost saving measure when the triple track was laid through what was formerly Christchurch Yard.
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I am reliably informed this section will be double tracked sometime in the next two years.
Last edited by Gerald Petrie on Thu Mar 27, 2014 3:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Port of Tauranga to take 50% stake in Port of Timaru

Postby pete » Thu Mar 27, 2014 8:33 am

Apologies for being slightly off topic. This means Rolleston was an island platform? I don't remember ever seeing an overbridge there in days past? Also, is the siding at Rolleston ever used n recent years?
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Re: Port of Tauranga to take 50% stake in Port of Timaru

Postby eurokiwi78 » Thu Mar 27, 2014 11:55 am

ive seen a signal & interlocking diagram for rolleston before the track was singled and the double line ended immediately north of the loop rather than a trentham like layout.

I did a google search and found the diagram on the trainweb.org website. i wont post it but its prettt easy to find...
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Re: Port of Tauranga to take 50% stake in Port of Timaru

Postby dave the rave » Thu Mar 27, 2014 12:56 pm

So whats creating the need for this new inland port at Rolleston? While I know the truck area toward Cashin Quay is congested, the rail yard in Lyttelton itself is huge and usually deserted (apart from logs down the eastern end). Similarly Kiwirail still owns lots of land at the Woolston site which is supposed to be an inland port for Lyttelton and again lots of empty rail tracks.. lets not forget too the now empty Linwood loco yards.. And the container port itself is hardly busy like Tauranga.. there is never more than 1 container vessel in at time now (unlike years ago) and although there was talk of getting a 4th container crane - that seems to have stalled... so is there huge growth in the pipeline??
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Re: Port of Tauranga to take 50% stake in Port of Timaru

Postby locost_bryan » Thu Mar 27, 2014 1:10 pm

According to the LPC latest container weekly news, 8-10 ships per week, about 7500 TEU.

Other driving factors - Tauranga bought Timaru port and Rolleston site, Lyttelton port is going to be a construction zone for quite a few years, big shift in industry and warehousing to southwest of Chch (Rolleston, Hornby, airport), Southern Motorway extension to Templeton.
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Re: Port of Tauranga to take 50% stake in Port of Timaru

Postby Gerald Petrie » Thu Mar 27, 2014 1:37 pm

pete wrote:Apologies for being slightly off topic. This means Rolleston was an island platform? I don't remember ever seeing an overbridge there in days past? Also, is the siding at Rolleston ever used n recent years?


Rolleston had a footbridge. It was taken down sometime between these two memos.
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The siding at Rolleston Yard was used yesterday. These tampers sprinted out to Weedons, did some tamping, then sprinted back to Rolleston to let some trains through.
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