Would a commuter railcar service work in chch?

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Re: Would a commuter railcar service work in chch?

Postby MacRiada » Mon Mar 24, 2014 10:20 pm

Aviator wrote:Not knowing much about the current state of Christchurch's CBD, could you please tell us how much of that proposed route is occupied by buildings which aren't planned to be demolished?


Check out this map: http://progressmap.ccdu.govt.nz/

All the coloured blocks are to be demoed (or have already been), although excluding all of the red circles. However the land is not meant to sit idle for too long as the start dates for construction is ether at the end of this year or the beginning of next year.

I first suggested the idea of using that route last year using railcars in a manner similar to the Zwickau Model of Tram-trains, as the title of this thread suggests.

Before anyone attacks me fore saying Tram-train, the Zwickau Model means:
The Zwickau model is an inversion of the Karlsruhe model, with diesel main-line trains extended through city streets on tram track. It is so called because the German city of Zwickau was the first to introduce it, with bergen following. Zwickau uses dual-gauge track, but that is not an essential feature of the model.


However that land (the south frame as the government terms it) will be built on before any type of support could be fostered for a Christchurch spur.
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Re: Would a commuter railcar service work in chch?

Postby matthew25187 » Wed Mar 26, 2014 1:47 pm

eurokiwi78 wrote:The route i picked had a green space along the middle of the road from the map gerry browlee unveiled, except for the north - south alignment. If some sort of linear park/cycleway could be designated along the corridor then it wiuld be protected until a more pro PT environment existed and a new lynn style trench excavated if need be.

An at-grade transport corridor through Hagley Park isn't going to work as there would be staunch opposition to such development from locals, who have already fought against several other development proposals that would have involved land in Hagley Park. Back in the 19th century Christchurch locals successfully buried a plan to build a railway line from Riccarton through the park to/through the city centre, and AFAIK the only (heavy) railway line to have ever been built in Hagley Park was a temporary line into North Hagley Park for the 1907 International Exhibition.

If you were thinking of a sub-grade line, it is doubtful such a project would get approved (cost). The idea of a subterranean central-city line was rejected in a 2005 ECan review of commuter rail options, and witness the Government's reluctance to back such a project in Auckland. With a proposed smaller CBD in Christchurch and the development of commercial centres away from the CBD there is unlikely to be a sufficient concentration of potential users to justify more expensive options. New options for residential living in the central city are being developed with the idea that residents could also work close to where they live, obviating the need to use public transport for commuting purposes. The traditional role of commuter rail, to get people from their homes in outer suburbs or satellite towns to a CBD for work, is becoming less relevant in the "new" Christchurch. One need only look at the Metro bus operation and the number of new bus routes that have been introduced since the earthquakes that don't pass through or terminate at the central bus station.

Having said all that, I'm inclined to think that the "best" option (though I have previously expressed reservations about the cost of any sub-grade rail infrastructure in Christchurch given new requirements for seismic resilience) for a central-city rail connection would have been, and IIRC has been previously suggested here, a sub-grade line from the MSL north up (under) Colombo Street in a cut-n-cover tunnel. Such a line could terminate right beside the new central transport interchange on a subterranean level (station) with an option for future extension of the line northwards à la Britomart. This would, however, rely on an east-facing link from the MNL being restored at Addington for rail access to the north while the line remained a terminus.
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Re: Would a commuter railcar service work in chch?

Postby dave the rave » Wed Mar 26, 2014 2:49 pm

yes I must admit that trying to get the public approval to push a railway line through Hagley Park will be nigh on impossible. So that does leave I guess the next best option being the one outlined above - with the long term plan being to extend north to give rapid north travel out of the city. But again, so much resource consent, public consultation, red tape, select committees.. I just don't think rail is ever going to happen in central CHC :cry: :cry: :cry:
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Re: Would a commuter railcar service work in chch?

Postby Kahukowhai » Wed Mar 26, 2014 8:41 pm

matthew25187 wrote:An at-grade transport corridor through Hagley Park isn't going to work as there would be staunch opposition to such development from locals, who have already fought against several other development proposals that would have involved land in Hagley Park. Back in the 19th century Christchurch locals successfully buried a plan to build a railway line from Riccarton through the park to/through the city centre, and AFAIK the only (heavy) railway line to have ever been built in Hagley Park was a temporary line into North Hagley Park for the 1907 International Exhibition.

If you were thinking of a sub-grade line, it is doubtful such a project would get approved (cost). The idea of a subterranean central-city line was rejected in a 2005 ECan review of commuter rail options, and witness the Government's reluctance to back such a project in Auckland. With a proposed smaller CBD in Christchurch and the development of commercial centres away from the CBD there is unlikely to be a sufficient concentration of potential users to justify more expensive options. New options for residential living in the central city are being developed with the idea that residents could also work close to where they live, obviating the need to use public transport for commuting purposes. The traditional role of commuter rail, to get people from their homes in outer suburbs or satellite towns to a CBD for work, is becoming less relevant in the "new" Christchurch. One need only look at the Metro bus operation and the number of new bus routes that have been introduced since the earthquakes that don't pass through or terminate at the central bus station.


The changes in bus routes (the 100 series routes) has got nothing to do with common sense. The "hubs and spokes" approach was just a pathetic excuse to avoid having to deal with the fact there were too many routes to begin with or the routes weren't useful to people.
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Re: Would a commuter railcar service work in chch?

Postby Kahukowhai » Fri Apr 25, 2014 1:08 pm

locost_bryan wrote:
pete wrote:Macrida, where was that picture of yours taken, with the caption 'ripped up without public consultation'? I don't recognize area

Marshs Rd, Prebbleton. Will be removed for the Southern Motorway extension - see Little River Cycleway marked "O" on the NZTA map here.


It will be closed, but still remain as a corridor and cycleway.
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Re: Would a commuter railcar service work in chch?

Postby eurokiwi78 » Sat Apr 26, 2014 9:23 am

Id like to see a basic half hourly service between rolleston & rangiora with integrated fares and frequent interchanges with the bus network at places like riccarton ave, papanui etc. They would probably only require three dmus in service at a time for that and whilst track warrant control isnt ideal there are work arounds to make it simpler to run trains between belfast & rangiora provided for within the regulations.

Would be good to see a map of the bus network with the train included into the network as the line by itself would be irrelevant, its the network that is useful to people. If free tranfers within two hours were ok like they are with buses currently it could be a useful addition to the pt network.
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