Would a commuter railcar service work in chch?

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Avon River expected to be feature of a world-best city park

Postby MacRiada » Wed Aug 28, 2013 1:20 pm

Canty again is pushing the light rail rubbish.

Avon River expected to be feature of a world-best city park
Christchurch’s Avon River expected to be feature of a world-best city park, visiting expert says
University of Canterbury

The regeneration of the Avon River into a world-best city park using the best ecological regeneration techniques by reclaiming former red zone areas in Christchurch will totally reshape the city, a leading world city rebuild expert says.

Peter Newman, Professor of Sustainability at Curtin University in Perth, says the regeneration of the Avon, providing bikeways along the river park and also producing central city green buildings including biophilic features such as green roofs and green walls as pioneered by the University of Canterbury (UC), will transform Christchurch into one of the finest sustainable and popular cities in the world.

Professor Newman will give a public lecture on the rebuild at UC next week (September 4). See for details: http://www.canterbury.ac.nz/wiw/

``The big factor missing from the plan is Light Rail. Light rail will make all the difference to Christchurch. Whatever you do, please don't give up on light rail. It will structure the city to enable all the other things to happen.

``It’s not that expensive when considering all the factors. Light rail will be critical to enabling the city centre to revive. The chances are good if a new financing approach can be taken called Value Capture which uses the increase in land value around rail stations to finance it.’’

Professor Newman talks more about Christchurch’s rebuild and light rail here: http://youtu.be/oywX42VSR8s

``All these green features are on the agenda with the planners we have spoken to as well as the need to regenerate the city centre and declining suburbs using 21st century planning techniques.

``Our new research project between Curtin University and UC, working with Professor Simon Kingham’s team, is called Greening the Greyfields and consists of digital planning techniques using geographic information systems and computer visualisation like that developed in UC’s HIT Lab NZ.

``We have also been making a film on the regeneration of Christchurch with my colleague Tim Beatley from University of Virginia. Our last film on Singapore had 10,000 hits on You Tube.

``We have interviewed key people like the Mayor Bob Parker, Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Authority’s Roger Sutton, politician Lianne Dalziel, Bishop Victoria Matthews as well as UC academics like Ryan Reynolds, Bryan Jenkins, Eric Pawson, Matt Morris and Aisling O’Sullivan.

``Christchurch has become a special experience, to be part of a city that is regenerating. It is a privilege for people and students to visit or settle in this city.

``It is a boom town in many ways but most of all it is a city with a strong spirit that needs as many young people as possible to help. UC is a fantastic place that has world leading innovations in how to create a more resilient city.’’

Professor Newman is an Erskine visitor to UC. The Erskine Fellowship programme was established in 1963 following a generous bequest by former distinguished UC student John Erskine.


Oh if you are from the area add your voice on getting smarter transport choices than the CBD to uni light rail here: http://www.futurechristchurch.co.nz/finding-the-balance
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Re: Would a commuter railcar service work in chch?

Postby Daniel » Wed Aug 28, 2013 2:47 pm

LOL at these arrogant boffins from the University of Canterbury who've tried to get Prof Newman's not-even-on-topic talks to somehow back-up their poorly-researched light rail scheme.
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Re: Would a commuter railcar service work in chch?

Postby john-ston » Wed Aug 28, 2013 6:29 pm

pete wrote:Agree. I never thought the 60km limit was a good strategy, as it lead to a lot of inefficiencies. The current strategy is, I believe, preferable. Let KR compete operationally on sound business principle, but give it the capital to enable a reasonably level playing field. The 10 year turnaround plan may not be perfect, but its a great start.


Sadly, I think that had NZR been efficient in the 1950s and there been no limits at that point, a good portion of the traffic that was lost from the 1950s through 1980s could have been kept for rail (and perhaps a few of the branch lines would have survived as well).
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Re: Would a commuter railcar service work in chch?

Postby MacRiada » Wed Aug 28, 2013 6:38 pm

Here are some screen captures of research done last year:

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Can anyone decipher the two Rolleston options?
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Visiting expert recommends light rail

Postby MacRiada » Sun Sep 15, 2013 8:30 pm

He is back in the News again...

Visiting expert recommends light rail
A global expert on world urban rail systems has made a plea for Christchurch's rebuild planners to include light rail for the future benefit of the city in recovery.

Professor Peter Newman, who has been a guest lecturer at the University of Canterbury (UC), says light rail has significant benefits to a modern economy.

He has been to Christchurch 12 times and is pleading for the city to consider light rail as fundamental to the rebuilding of the city centre.

He says the world is building urban rail faster than ever before.

"All major developed cities and emerging cities in China and India are building rail as fast as they can. All Australian cities had rail projects as their number one issue in the past few years."

He says the reason is partly due to the price of fuel is impacting on outer suburban commuters, partly because congestion has gone too far and partly it's a change in culture with young mobile phone-using millennials (Generation Y) preferring public transport to driving.

''Urban economies must have competitive centres and only rail enables this. Big roads disperse economic activity, bus services can't cope with the numbers needed, so urban rail is high on the agenda.

"Christchurch can have a very good bus service for the foreseeable future servicing its many popular malls, made even more so by the earthquakes. But it will never be able to truly rebuild its city centre without a fast modern light rail servicing it. The financial commitment to build in the city centre demands a light rail. It's that simple.

''The costs of light rail in Christchurch has been overstated in recent reports and there has been little attempt to develop new alternative funding mechanisms. Perth built its new rail line at $17 million per km whereas light rail is seen to be double this in Christchurch.

''Recent work in Australian cities is showing that a major part of the costs of light rail can be found from land value capture.''


http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/news/c ... light-rail
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Re: Visiting expert recommends light rail

Postby Daniel » Sun Sep 15, 2013 9:25 pm

MacRiada wrote:He is back in the News again...

Visiting expert recommends light rail
A global expert on world urban rail systems has made a plea for Christchurch's rebuild planners to include light rail for the future benefit of the city in recovery.

Professor Peter Newman, who has been a guest lecturer at the University of Canterbury (UC), says light rail has significant benefits to a modern economy.

He has been to Christchurch 12 times and is pleading for the city to consider light rail as fundamental to the rebuilding of the city centre.

He says the world is building urban rail faster than ever before.

"All major developed cities and emerging cities in China and India are building rail as fast as they can. All Australian cities had rail projects as their number one issue in the past few years."

He says the reason is partly due to the price of fuel is impacting on outer suburban commuters, partly because congestion has gone too far and partly it's a change in culture with young mobile phone-using millennials (Generation Y) preferring public transport to driving.

''Urban economies must have competitive centres and only rail enables this. Big roads disperse economic activity, bus services can't cope with the numbers needed, so urban rail is high on the agenda.

"Christchurch can have a very good bus service for the foreseeable future servicing its many popular malls, made even more so by the earthquakes. But it will never be able to truly rebuild its city centre without a fast modern light rail servicing it. The financial commitment to build in the city centre demands a light rail. It's that simple.

''The costs of light rail in Christchurch has been overstated in recent reports and there has been little attempt to develop new alternative funding mechanisms. Perth built its new rail line at $17 million per km whereas light rail is seen to be double this in Christchurch.

''Recent work in Australian cities is showing that a major part of the costs of light rail can be found from land value capture.''


http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/news/c ... light-rail
:roll: *groan*
In his previous visits to these little "lectures" that the University of Canterbury are inexplicably hosting; Prof' Newman only advocated rail, not specifically light rail.
I'm disappointed that this time he's compromised his credibility by directly advocating light rail. I'm sorry but; saying Christchurch will "never be able to truly rebuild its city centre without a fast modern light rail servicing it" is stating a falsehood.

Please: can somebody in Christchurch try and educate these persistent academics!
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Re: Visiting expert recommends light rail

Postby Chris Randal. » Mon Sep 16, 2013 7:21 am

Daniel wrote:Please: can somebody in Christchurch try and educate these persistent academics!


In my admittedly limited experience of academics they cannot be educated because they believe they already know everything.
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Re: Visiting expert recommends light rail

Postby Andrew » Mon Sep 16, 2013 8:56 am

Chris Randal. wrote:In my admittedly limited experience of academics they cannot be educated because they believe they already know everything.


I thought that was politicians?
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Re: Visiting expert recommends light rail

Postby Chris Randal. » Mon Sep 16, 2013 10:03 am

Andrew wrote:I thought that was politicians?


Them too...What makes them worse is they can do far more damage.
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Re: Visiting expert recommends light rail

Postby john-ston » Mon Sep 16, 2013 6:59 pm

Chris Randal. wrote:
Daniel wrote:Please: can somebody in Christchurch try and educate these persistent academics!


In my admittedly limited experience of academics they cannot be educated because they believe they already know everything.


And the problem with academics is they have quite an ivory tower, closed circuit view of the world. Basically, to them, if something hasn't been in an academic journal, then it doesn't exist - which tends to limit new ideas and challenges to existing ideas.
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Commuter rail articles

Postby MacRiada » Sat Mar 22, 2014 12:36 am

Late last year a number of articles were published on stuff about getting commuter rail working in Christchurch. Here is an overview if anyone is interested in reading them.

I would be interested in what others think of them and if anyone thinks any issues were left out.

David Killick's intro - Commuter rail needed for rebuilt city
http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/news/t ... built-city

Richard Macready's overview - Commuter rail for Christchurch?
http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff-nation/ass ... ristchurch

A Critique of the idea by "Chris" - Why commuter rail isn't an option (yet)
http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff-nation/ass ... option-yet

Richard Macready's retort - ChCh rail 'important option'
http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff-nation/ass ... ant-option
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Re: Would a commuter railcar service work in chch?

Postby Islander » Sat Mar 22, 2014 10:02 am

I note that one proposal included a city electric bus loop to a railway station in Moorehouse Ave. This then got me thinking about using the Wellington trolly buses for this purpose should they be removed from the Wellington operations.
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Re: Would a commuter railcar service work in chch?

Postby Kahukowhai » Sun Mar 23, 2014 2:35 pm

MacRiada wrote:Here are some screen captures of research done last year:

Click to view full size
Click to view full size
Click to view full size
Click to view full size
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Click to view full size
Click to view full size
Click to view full size
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Can anyone decipher the two Rolleston options?


"partially double tracked" (Option A) probably just means a few passing tracks, maybe at any stations between Islington and Rolleston. It is already effectively double track Lyttelton to Islington.
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Re: Would a commuter railcar service work in chch?

Postby dave the rave » Sun Mar 23, 2014 6:01 pm

All this analysis on potential commuter numbers, fares, double tracking etc is all and good and is something to talk about.. but I think we are all in agreement that until the rail line goes to the centre of the city, the rest is secondary. And at this stage unfortunately I am not aware of any plans by council or government to do this. Disappointing I know - but it is the reality and I think this is where combined energies and lobbying should be focused on.
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Re: Would a commuter railcar service work in chch?

Postby MacRiada » Sun Mar 23, 2014 11:26 pm

dave the rave wrote:but I think we are all in agreement that until the rail line goes to the centre of the city, the rest is secondary. And at this stage unfortunately I am not aware of any plans by council or government to do this. Disappointing I know - but it is the reality and I think this is where combined energies and lobbying should be focused on.


The location of Christchurch's 1st railway station (crn Colombo st & Morehouse Ave) which is the closest section of track to the square, happens to be the same distance away as The Stand was to the centre of Auckland (1km). The 2nd and 3rd Christchurch railway stations were 200m and 350m to the east of the location of the first, while the forth is off in Addington.

So I think the Colombo st & Morehouse Ave site is not preferable, but it is still nonetheless workable.

The new bus exchange will be built 600m north of the corner of Colombo st and Morehouse Ave (& thus 400m to the south of the square), which I think would clearly be the most preferable site for a new railway station, but I don't know if we have any elite support for it. I know there is support in the community in Christchurch for heavy rail, but Labour and the Greens are happy to keep supporting the status quo in public transport for Christchurch.

As no one from outside Christchurch is interested is helping to lobby for monetary support for heavy rail in the first place, asking Christchurch rate payers to fund a spur into the CBD on top of paying to get back up and running is not even worthwhile.

If support could be gained, then in the image below shows a red box where the bus exchange is moving to (while the red arrow shows where from) and the blue box where the new railway station could go. The black arrow shows where a pedestrian subway could go, such as the one in wellington.
Image
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Re: Would a commuter railcar service work in chch?

Postby Kahukowhai » Mon Mar 24, 2014 12:18 am

MacRiada wrote:
dave the rave wrote:but I think we are all in agreement that until the rail line goes to the centre of the city, the rest is secondary. And at this stage unfortunately I am not aware of any plans by council or government to do this. Disappointing I know - but it is the reality and I think this is where combined energies and lobbying should be focused on.


The location of Christchurch's 1st railway station (crn Colombo st & Morehouse Ave) which is the closest section of track to the square, happens to be the same distance away as The Stand was to the centre of Auckland (1km). The 2nd and 3rd Christchurch railway stations were 200m and 350m to the east of the location of the first, while the forth is off in Addington.

So I think the Colombo st & Morehouse Ave site is not preferable, but it is still nonetheless workable.

The new bus exchange will be built 600m north of the corner of Colombo st and Morehouse Ave (& thus 400m to the south of the square), which I think would clearly be the most preferable site for a new railway station, but I don't know if we have any elite support for it. I know there is support in the community in Christchurch for heavy rail, but Labour and the Greens are happy to keep supporting the status quo in public transport for Christchurch.

As no one from outside Christchurch is interested is helping to lobby for monetary support for heavy rail in the first place, asking Christchurch rate payers to fund a spur into the CBD on top of paying to get back up and running is not even worthwhile.

If support could be gained, then in the image below shows a red box where the bus exchange is moving to (while the red arrow shows where from) and the blue box where the new railway station could go. The black arrow shows where a pedestrian subway could go, such as the one in wellington.
Image


The more likely scenario is putting a transport exchange at B Shed which has enough land around it to get tracks into platforms.
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Re: Would a commuter railcar service work in chch?

Postby eurokiwi78 » Mon Mar 24, 2014 4:01 pm

Here is my suggestion for a city spur

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Re: Would a commuter railcar service work in chch?

Postby dave the rave » Mon Mar 24, 2014 7:19 pm

Eurokiwi you are definitely on the right path in terms of a realistic, cost effective option. This would get trains in and through the city very effectively. I was thinking of perhaps even the next block up (TUAM?) so that your HOSPITAL stop is right at the hospital for maximum patronage. This would also just get you a block closer to the square. You would still have connection to the bus interchange I think. And perhaps going a block or 2 more eastward before heading south-east so that you go right past the polytech - another popular station. Perhaps a trench below ground level is needed for the hagley park section to make it less intrusive.The line would be for passenger services only with freight still going the moorhouse ave line. I don't think a dead-end spur is the answer as it will always involve a circuitous/long journey for most services. Why dont the powers that be see it our way and get on with building something like this - wouldn't cost a lot - then we could get rid of half those noisy road-hogging busses!
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Re: Would a commuter railcar service work in chch?

Postby Aviator » Mon Mar 24, 2014 9:32 pm

eurokiwi78 wrote:Here is my suggestion for a city spur

[img]
Image
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[img]
Image[/img]

Not knowing much about the current state of Christchurch's CBD, could you please tell us how much of that proposed route is occupied by buildings which aren't planned to be demolished?

A
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Re: Would a commuter railcar service work in chch?

Postby eurokiwi78 » Mon Mar 24, 2014 10:17 pm

The route i picked had a green space along the middle of the road from the map gerry browlee unveiled, except for the north - south alignment. If some sort of linear park/cycleway could be designated along the corridor then it wiuld be protected until a more pro PT environment existed and a new lynn style trench excavated if need be.
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