Hornby Industrial Line Sidings

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Re: Hornby Industrial Line Sidings

Postby Kahukowhai » Sun Feb 16, 2014 2:00 pm

Map updates:
Image
hil10a by enzedrail, on Flickr
This is showing where the motorway cuts through, and the proposal to realign the backshunt.
Image
hil10b by enzedrail, on Flickr
Prebble Seeds building which will have a cycleway path running along the back of it. Whether the track will remain in place is unknown but has been requested by the LRRT promoters. This has been the end of the operational line for at least 15 years.
Image
hil12 by enzedrail, on Flickr
The Coolpak main building which had a loading shelter constructed over the stub of line, which effectively became its siding. Whenever this ceased to be used is unknown; it was disused by 1998 although the shelter was still in place.
Image
hil13 by enzedrail, on Flickr
The map of Prebbleton station seen in the Southbridge Branch Rail Maps album was updated to show the two sidings and goods shed.
Image
hil21 by enzedrail, on Flickr
This map of Lincoln replaces the one in the Southbridge Branch Rail Maps album. It may have additional detail added at some future time.
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Re: Hornby Industrial Line Sidings

Postby Gerald Petrie » Mon Feb 17, 2014 11:22 am

Image
There are still some files for me to research; so one day I may identify this siding properly. It might just be a modern deviation of Crown Crystal's East Siding - see how the concrete is laid. However, if it dates from the 1950s or 1960s it has to be one of the firms that are known to have access to the private siding loop.
Image

Back in 1951, Dominion Breweries (along with Crown Crystal Glass and Goss Timber) were asked to contribute to the cost of the private siding loop. Whether they fronted up with the cash or not, I cannot say. I have no record of James Hardie and Co. ever having a siding, and I don't know where their site was.
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Re: Hornby Industrial Line Sidings

Postby geoff_184 » Wed Feb 19, 2014 2:01 pm

What are the people of Christchurch doing in regards to ensuring NZTA doesn't proceed with stymying future passenger rail to Prebbleton? Or does apathy rule?
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Re: Hornby Industrial Line Sidings

Postby locost_bryan » Wed Feb 19, 2014 2:57 pm

geoff_184 wrote:What are the people of Christchurch doing in regards to ensuring NZTA doesn't proceed with stymying future passenger rail to Prebbleton? Or does apathy rule?

Apathy rules - they built on the Prebbleton and Lincoln station sites years ago.
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Re: Hornby Industrial Line Sidings

Postby eurokiwi78 » Wed Feb 19, 2014 3:59 pm

Same apathy rules with the cbd rebuild, no corridor protection there either.
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Re: Hornby Industrial Line Sidings

Postby Gerald Petrie » Wed Feb 19, 2014 7:16 pm

geoff_184 wrote:What are the people of Christchurch doing in regards to ensuring NZTA doesn't proceed with stymying future passenger rail to Prebbleton? Or does apathy rule?


I’ve known of the plans to chop the line for about thirty years. The only reason in my view the line still exists now is motorway construction is about thirty years behind schedule here.

Amusingly, it was the late Roger Redward that informed me that the line was going to be chopped. I never said it to his face, but I kept thinking, what a silly place to put a preservation group.

I think the issue here is not the apathy of the people of Christchurch – but the appalling apathy, total lack of fight and zero foresight and imagination of Kiwirail. It is a big thing to delete a Railway Reserve. It can only be done by an Order in Council or Proclamation of Parliament, and then gazetted. I would argue, if Kiwirail had objected (I’m picking they didn’t) the track would survive. You can see by the design and length of the proposed backshunt that Kiwirail has had some imput.

Recently I researched the Watties private siding. During the design stage (1969-70), the Ministry of Works had to be consulted as to where exactly the motorway was going. There was a good deal of uncertainty, and plans were drawn up to point the siding north if there was not enough room. In due course, the Ministry (which was the big player in road construction back then) indicated that what Watties was proposing was appropriate and that was what was built.

Image

The motorway designation has been an impediment to industrial investment on its Prebbleton side and I lament this massive lack of opportunity. Only one private siding has been identified (Coolpak) the wrong side of the motorway designation.

This is Coolpak (now Polarcold). It must be a rare thing to use a main line as a private siding. They were even allowed to build a canopy over the main.
Image

This is Prebble Seeds. It too was built the wrong side of the motorway designation. The design of the building suggests they intended to have a private siding, but I can't prove whether they ever it got one or not.
Image

The Southern Rail preservation group started by leasing the Prebbleton Goodshed, then later the whole yard. At some stage (early 1980s) Roger heard through the grapevine that Phillip Burdon’s firm, Meadow Mushrooms wanted to build a private siding that would somehow (don’t ask me how) connect with Prebbleton Yard. Roger was incensed, not just would it affect his preservation enterprise, but because the supposed odour the proposed mushroom operation would produce. Roger (and Marie) visited every house in Prebbleton to get signatures on a petition opposing the proposal. I was appalled when Roger told me he did this.

Roads destroying rail links are not unheard of. When Cavendish Drive was built through Wiri it destroyed the Wiri west sidings (a good example of Auckland apathy Geoff – stir, stir). I apologize to the moderators in advance for getting off subject.
Last edited by Gerald Petrie on Wed Feb 19, 2014 9:51 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Hornby Industrial Line Sidings

Postby Hamish O » Wed Feb 19, 2014 7:52 pm

Surely if there is enough demand to justify passenger services in the future (which I am doubtful of) an overbridge could be built then? The only issue with doing it this way is potential motorway disruption, and a higher cost - but this is offset by not having to pay for it now.
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Re: Hornby Industrial Line Sidings

Postby eurokiwi78 » Wed Feb 19, 2014 10:59 pm

Hamish O wrote:Surely if there is enough demand to justify passenger services in the future (which I am doubtful of) an overbridge could be built then? The only issue with doing it this way is potential motorway disruption, and a higher cost - but this is offset by not having to pay for it now.


But any future rail proposal then has this extra cost loaded against it from the outset making the proposal seem more expensive. Lake Road in Rotorua is another classic example although Rotorua appears to be have suffered from complete apathy towards any railways whatsoever for a very long time.
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Re: Hornby Industrial Line Sidings

Postby geoff_184 » Thu Feb 20, 2014 3:43 pm

Gerald Petrie wrote:When Cavendish Drive was built through Wiri it destroyed the Wiri west sidings...


Not quite, the bridge was built wide enough for the siding to be relaid.

I think if Christchurch had chosen to take the fantastic opportunity on offer of the rebuild coinciding with the release of Auckland's diesel trains, the line to Prebbleton would be seen in a different light. It's that apathy over passenger rail that I'm referring to, rather than rail in general.

It's a shame Christchurch doesn't have its own PT transport lobby group, as public campaigns can sometimes get excellent results (as with CBT and Onehunga).

Christchurch missing the boat on the easiest, cheapest and most convenient opportunity to reintstate passenger rail (likely to never be repeated), and the severing of an existing railway to a growing urban area, can only be described as tragic and lamentable. If it can't be done now, it never will.
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Re: Hornby Industrial Line Sidings

Postby geoff_184 » Thu Feb 20, 2014 3:46 pm

locost_bryan wrote:Apathy rules - they built on the Prebbleton and Lincoln station sites years ago.


There's space for a Prebbleton station at the end of the current line, only 200m or so from the old station site.
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Re: Hornby Industrial Line Sidings

Postby john-ston » Thu Feb 20, 2014 5:45 pm

Hamish O wrote:Surely if there is enough demand to justify passenger services in the future (which I am doubtful of) an overbridge could be built then? The only issue with doing it this way is potential motorway disruption, and a higher cost - but this is offset by not having to pay for it now.


Except that the cost of doing it later will be about ten times the cost of doing it now. A bit like the Auckland Harbour Bridge in fact...
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Re: Hornby Industrial Line Sidings

Postby MacRiada » Sat Feb 22, 2014 4:47 pm

geoff_184 wrote:It's a shame Christchurch doesn't have its own PT transport lobby group, as public campaigns can sometimes get excellent results (as with CBT and Onehunga).


Generation Zero's Canterbury branch is working on something, but it sound's like they need some help.

While the lobby group CanRail is trying to get a meeting with Gerry Brownlee to discuss running a rail time trial to Christchurch's satellite towns to create a comparison to a bus commute.

If CBT wants to help, then now is the time.
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Re: Hornby Industrial Line Sidings

Postby eurokiwi78 » Sat Feb 22, 2014 6:17 pm

A genzero cfn for christchurch would be interesting to see. A tube style map might help capture the imaginations of cantabs.
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Re: Hornby Industrial Line Sidings

Postby Kahukowhai » Sat Feb 22, 2014 6:52 pm

MacRiada wrote:
geoff_184 wrote:It's a shame Christchurch doesn't have its own PT transport lobby group, as public campaigns can sometimes get excellent results (as with CBT and Onehunga).


Generation Zero's Canterbury branch is working on something, but it sound's like they need some help.

While the lobby group CanRail is trying to get a meeting with Gerry Brownlee to discuss running a rail time trial to Christchurch's satellite towns to create a comparison to a bus commute.

If CBT wants to help, then now is the time.


CBT does not have a formal presence here, but they have offered to resource a branch starting up.
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Re: Hornby Industrial Line Sidings

Postby Kahukowhai » Sat Feb 22, 2014 7:08 pm

Gerald Petrie wrote:
geoff_184 wrote:What are the people of Christchurch doing in regards to ensuring NZTA doesn't proceed with stymying future passenger rail to Prebbleton? Or does apathy rule?


The Southern Rail preservation group started by leasing the Prebbleton Goodshed, then later the whole yard. At some stage (early 1980s) Roger heard through the grapevine that Phillip Burdon’s firm, Meadow Mushrooms wanted to build a private siding that would somehow (don’t ask me how) connect with Prebbleton Yard. Roger was incensed, not just would it affect his preservation enterprise, but because the supposed odour the proposed mushroom operation would produce. Roger (and Marie) visited every house in Prebbleton to get signatures on a petition opposing the proposal. I was appalled when Roger told me he did this.


Image
mm by enzedrail, on Flickr

Meadow Mushrooms lower right in this view. A siding would probably have been an extension of Certified Concrete's old siding for example, or Toll's, probably not into Prebbleton itself, which would have been a much greater distance.
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Re: Hornby Industrial Line Sidings

Postby Gerald Petrie » Sat Feb 22, 2014 7:22 pm

Image
Meadow Mushrooms is at the red letter 'C', Springs Road, Prebbleton.
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Re: Hornby Industrial Line Sidings

Postby Kahukowhai » Sat Feb 22, 2014 7:49 pm

Gerald Petrie wrote:Image
Meadow Mushrooms is at the red letter 'C', Springs Road, Prebbleton.


OK so that's another site they have.

Image
preb84 by enzedrail, on Flickr

Even in 1984 a siding to it would have been difficult. It was probably never that likely in the first place.
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Re: Hornby Industrial Line Sidings

Postby MacRiada » Sat Feb 22, 2014 11:27 pm

Kahukowhai wrote:
MacRiada wrote:If CBT wants to help, then now is the time.


CBT does not have a formal presence here, but they have offered to resource a branch starting up.


How do we go about setting that up?

I'm sure CanRail would be interested in being involved, plus they seem to be well connected and have their own swanky meeting location.
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Re: Hornby Industrial Line Sidings

Postby Kahukowhai » Sun Feb 23, 2014 7:20 am

MacRiada wrote:
Kahukowhai wrote:
MacRiada wrote:If CBT wants to help, then now is the time.


CBT does not have a formal presence here, but they have offered to resource a branch starting up.


How do we go about setting that up?

I'm sure CanRail would be interested in being involved, plus they seem to be well connected and have their own swanky meeting location.


Talk to them. They offered some stuff to me at the time, but I wanted more people on the ground because they weren't offering to organise that.
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Re: Hornby Industrial Line Sidings

Postby pete » Thu Feb 27, 2014 7:32 am

When was the Prebbleton over bridge built? The Little River/Southbridge line or the road were presumably never overly busy, and the bridge was, I am guessing, built not long before the line was closed. Is there a back story as to why the bridge was built?
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