Waimakariri commuter rail service

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Waimakariri commuter rail service

Postby matthew25187 » Fri Apr 25, 2014 12:26 am

Traffic delays force commuter rail services probe
SHELLEY ROBINSON
Commuter rail services between Christchurch and North Canterbury are on the cards after pressure from frustrated drivers.

Environment Canterbury (ECan) commissioners have been asked to approve up to $20,000 for an investigation into short-term passenger rail as a way to help alleviate the congestion into the city along the northern corridor.

The report said ''numerous enquiries'' had been received from the public on the potential to use the existing rail track from the Waimakariri district.
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Commuter rail may be too costly
SHELLEY ROBINSON
A multimillion-dollar upgrade to the commuter rail system may be too costly for the cash-strapped Christchurch City Council, the deputy mayor warns.

Environment Canterbury (ECan) commissioners will today decide whether to approve up to $20,000 for an investigation into short-term passenger rail to help ease traffic congestion between the city and North Canterbury.
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ECan agree to investigate rail option
SHELLEY ROBINSON
Environment Canterbury commissioners have agreed to investigate commuter trains to and from the Waimakariri to help alleviate traffic congestion.
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Looks to me like ECan want to do this report so they can "prove" that Christchurch commuter rail is too expensive and therefore silence the advocates for the idea. The laundry-list of costly requirements mentioned in the media reports for reinstating a commuter service seems almost guaranteed to be deemed an unjustifiable investment for a "temporary" service.
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Re: Waimakariri commuter rail service

Postby Rail-it » Fri Apr 25, 2014 3:24 am

Well here's hoping they don't leave wheelchair access out of the report. I can assure you, that must be one of the biggest costs for commuter rail these days(no offence intended, it just is costly).

As an example, the temporary platforms up at Helensville, Waimauku, Huapai north of Auckland, they cost around $80,000 each(1 track, 3 x cars long, poor on other facilities).
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Re: Waimakariri commuter rail service

Postby Kahukowhai » Fri Apr 25, 2014 1:06 pm

Taking a view of all the options, the most financially attractive must be improved bus services. It says a range of service options are being considered.
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Re: Waimakariri commuter rail service

Postby locost_bryan » Sun Apr 27, 2014 6:02 pm

Kahukowhai wrote:Taking a view of all the options, the most financially attractive must be improved bus services. It says a range of service options are being considered.

Might be cheaper, but with a fatal flaw - the buses will be stuck in the same queues as the cars. :(
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Re: Waimakariri commuter rail service

Postby madras » Sun Apr 27, 2014 6:06 pm

locost_bryan wrote:
Kahukowhai wrote:Taking a view of all the options, the most financially attractive must be improved bus services. It says a range of service options are being considered.

Might be cheaper, but with a fatal flaw - the buses will be stuck in the same queues as the cars. :(

I would hope by "improved" they mean dedicated bus lanes.
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Re: Waimakariri commuter rail service

Postby Kahukowhai » Sun Apr 27, 2014 10:29 pm

madras wrote:
locost_bryan wrote:
Kahukowhai wrote:Taking a view of all the options, the most financially attractive must be improved bus services. It says a range of service options are being considered.

Might be cheaper, but with a fatal flaw - the buses will be stuck in the same queues as the cars. :(

I would hope by "improved" they mean dedicated bus lanes.


Yes they will need bus lanes, I wonder if variable lanes on one of the bridges might help as well.
Is the bridge the holdup or is it where they come off the bridge?
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Re: Waimakariri commuter rail service

Postby john-ston » Mon Apr 28, 2014 7:52 am

locost_bryan wrote:Might be cheaper, but with a fatal flaw - the buses will be stuck in the same queues as the cars. :(


And that is why I would be in favour of at least a temporary rail service from Rangiora to Christchurch.
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Re: Waimakariri commuter rail service

Postby matthew25187 » Mon Apr 28, 2014 9:36 am

Experts keen to start train trial
SHELLEY ROBINSON
A group of experts say they can get a Waimakariri and Rolleston train trial on the tracks in two months - they just need $12,000 from the regional council.

Rail-Can, a group including former emeritus professor of transport studies from Lincoln University Dr Chris Kissling, said it already had quotes from KiwiRail for two trains, passenger cars and freight vans.

Rail-Can wanted Environment Canterbury (ECan) to consider paying it as part of an investigation into passenger rail between Waimakariri and Christchurch.
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$12,000 sounds far more reasonable than $100s of millions, but if this "trial" doesn't include things like bus connections at the stations served by the train, will it be testing a realistic scenario to encourage commuters to use it?
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Re: Waimakariri commuter rail service

Postby greenwelly » Mon Apr 28, 2014 11:36 am

matthew25187 wrote:$12,000 sounds far more reasonable than $100s of millions, but if this "trial" doesn't include things like bus connections at the stations served by the train, will it be testing a realistic scenario to encourage commuters to use it?


You can't buy squat for 12K, infact you would likely spent 12K in advertisments in the Press alone drumming up commuters,

The cost of running such a service is certainly going to be much more than 12K
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Re: Waimakariri commuter rail service

Postby john-ston » Mon Apr 28, 2014 12:39 pm

matthew25187 wrote:$12,000 sounds far more reasonable than $100s of millions, but if this "trial" doesn't include things like bus connections at the stations served by the train, will it be testing a realistic scenario to encourage commuters to use it?


The thing is that with a trial, you don't really want to reorient everything toward the rail service - you want to get an idea of potential patronage and see if it could be built up from there.
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Re: Waimakariri commuter rail service

Postby matthew25187 » Mon Apr 28, 2014 1:33 pm

Potential patronage of a commuter rail service is going to be greater if there are other public transport connections from the railway stations for those whose ultimate destination is more than "reasonable" walking distance from the railway line. If the trial service is going to be aimed at those who live north of the Waimakariri River AND whose jobs happen to be less than, say, a 15 minute walk from the nearest railway station, then that is going to be a small pool of people to impress with the "convenience" of the train. The potential here, for rail, is to provide an option for north Canterbury residents to bypass the bottleneck created for road transport by the two bridges over the river and once in Christchurch city to continue their journeys as before, using buses if need be to get to destinations beyond the narrow catchment of the railway line. Given the severe levels of traffic congestion being reported, one could speculate that the pool of potential public transport converts could be large, if a "complete" solution could be offered from reasonable locations near their homes and places of work.

In Wellington and Auckland there are many commuters who use both buses and trains to get to work, this type of multi-modal travel being encouraged by the relevant local authorities. If the possibility of encouraging these types of travellers to use rail is not to be explored with this passenger rail trial, then will it be an effective exercise in testing the potential of such a service? If commuters in the two cities already having a passenger rail system can handle transferring between trains and buses, then I'm sure those in Christchurch could do the same, if there was the opportunity to do so. Hence my scepticism as to the likelihood of obtaining meaningful results from this proposed trial for such a pitiful investment, unless there are non-public funds involved hitherto unmentioned in the media report.
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Re: Waimakariri commuter rail service

Postby john-ston » Mon Apr 28, 2014 3:29 pm

The issue at play isn't that people don't want to transfer, it is whether it is worth reorganising everything for a trial that may not work - the last thing you want is to rejig a whole heap of bus routes for twelve months, only to revert back to the old routes in the event the trial fails.
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Re: Waimakariri commuter rail service

Postby eurokiwi78 » Mon Apr 28, 2014 6:31 pm

An interchange between rail & bus at riccarton rd would be fairly handy, being frequent to the uni, the mall & the cbd plus perhaps a few other key locations where the rail line intersects a frequent bus like the orbiter. Rail on its own wont provide much value but I see it could add value to the overall metro network, especially if the transfers free, were like the buses currently are. And it needs to be at least half hourly otherwise it will be to infrequent enough to add flexibility.
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Re: Waimakariri commuter rail service

Postby Andrew » Tue Apr 29, 2014 6:21 am

I suppose one thing to do as part of the trial is a couple of feeder/distributor buses to go along with the train. If successful, then integrate the rest of the network.

One could transfer train users between the train, Uni, and wherever the biggest employment hub currently is (I almost said CBD, but am not up to date with things down there - have businesses started moving in to enough scale that the CBD is once again the city's biggest employment hub?)

Another could circulate between residential areas and the train station at the biggest feeder town (Rangiora?).
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Re: Waimakariri commuter rail service

Postby greenwelly » Fri Jul 18, 2014 2:01 pm

All over red rover,
There will be no trains between the Waimakariri to Christchurch because the $10 million cost is too expensive, the NZ Transport Agency (NZTA) says. Southern regional director Jim Harland said both the cost and placement of the current infrastructure meant it would not be well utilised.

The announcement came as part of a report on options to ease crippling congestion on the northern motorway. The report has been a closely guarded document as funding was worked out between all partners, district and city councils, the NZTA and ECan.

Instead, authorities will turn their attention to a $3million bus package which looks at increasing bus services during peak times, and adding a new commuter service between Rangiora, Hornby and the airport.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/news/transport/10283105/Trains-ruled-out-as-northern-corridor-solution
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Re: Waimakariri commuter rail service

Postby matthew25187 » Tue Jul 22, 2014 8:45 am

This really shouldn't be any surprise. The idea was set up to fail before the investigation was even started.
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Christchurch commuter rail back on the city council's agenda

Postby MacRiada » Mon Dec 14, 2015 10:59 pm

Christchurch commuter rail back on the city council's agenda
A commuter rail service to ease traffic congestion in Christchurch's north is back on the city council's agenda. Christchurch City Council has decided to again look into using the existing rail network, despite an Environment Canterbury (ECan) investigation last year ruling out this option as a temporary solution to traffic woes because of its $10 million price tag. Cr Ali Jones said she had spoken to numerous people who believed the costs quoted in the ECan report were "hugely inflated".

The council last week decided to initiate a business case process for a future public transport study with its strategic partners including NZ Transport Agency (NZTA), ECan and the Selwyn and Waimakariri district councils. This would include looking at rail and bus transportation across the city.

Christchurch Mayor Lianne Dalziel said she did not want to raise expectations that the city could afford to investigate a rail option on its own, because it could not. "The cost of even considering this option and doing it alone is massive," she said. "You can say the solution is staring us in the face. It's not just a straightforward 'yes we can just throw some trains that we don't have, on to a track that we don't have access to'. It sounds simple. I'm just saying it's not." Dalziel asked where people would go once they got off the train in the city because additional infrastructure and services would need to be provided, which would cost a lot of money. Jones said those issues would be included in any business case or study. Council staff will now come back to councillors with advice on using the existing rail infrastructure.

The rail discussion was sparked by the Shirley-Papanui Community Board, which has been pushing for the council to prioritise rail to resolve traffic congestion in the north. Board chairman Mike Davidson said the opportunity to build "a good light rail system" in Christchurch was slipping away, but he did not believe it was too late.
The council needed to look at a short to medium term solution and the rail tracks were "staring us in the face", he said. "To relieve the pressures, that is an option that needs to be considered strongly."

Council's transport and research unit manager Richard Osborne said if the council did not engage with NZTA from the beginning, it would not get funding, and it also needed ECan and Waimakariri and Selwyn district councils in the room. "If we don't bring them in from the beginning, the success of this work would be diminished and we'd end up with something not useful," he said. Osborne believed the business case needed to encompass all of Christchurch and not just focus on rail, but look at a number of rapid transport options, including bus.

Cr Phil Clearwater agreed, saying the city needed to consider rail as part of a wider public transport network and it was "madness" to look at rail in isolation because the issue was far too important. Jones was concerned a wider Christchurch approach looking at other options would dilute the focus away from the northern entrance of the city.


http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/news/7 ... ils-agenda

Why do people still think that commuter rail is light rail?

Also, they are a couple of years late if think they can take advantage of any second hand Auckland rail stock.
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Re: Waimakariri commuter rail service

Postby twig » Mon Mar 20, 2017 8:13 am

There seems to be a total lack of demand for Auckland's old rolling stock, and new railways being constructed in Africa (where there were a lot of 3'6' railways) are standard gauge - so the potential market is shrinking !

Here's the latest Christchurch proposal:-
http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/news/9 ... ristchurch
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