Media Articles

[scooter]

In terms of the article, I do agree that the railway line needs upgrading, but something needs to be done with the road as well - and it isn't just about holiday traffic; it is about traffic being forced down to 50km/h through Plimmerton and 70km/h through Paekakariki.

And 50km/h through Pukerua Bay. And 80km/h along the seafront.

[john-ston]

In terms of the article, I do agree that the railway line needs upgrading, but something needs to be done with the road as well - and it isn't just about holiday traffic; it is about traffic being forced down to 50km/h through Plimmerton and 70km/h through Paekakariki.

And 50km/h through Pukerua Bay. And 80km/h along the seafront.

Incidentally, that error I made potentially saved me from being wrong - I was going to say 70km/h through Pukerua Bay. The issue of course is that you don't have 100km/h running out of Wellington - I do agree that Transmission Gully is a poor route because trucks cannot use it (unless, you had a large enough cutting to ease the grade).

[duddley]

The trucking companies could always use gruntier trucks.

In terms of the article, I do agree that the railway line needs upgrading, but something needs to be done with the road as well - and it isn't just about holiday traffic; it is about traffic being forced down to 50km/h through Plimmerton and 70km/h through Paekakariki.

And 50km/h through Pukerua Bay. And 80km/h along the seafront.

Incidentally, that error I made potentially saved me from being wrong - I was going to say 70km/h through Pukerua Bay. The issue of course is that you don't have 100km/h running out of Wellington - I do agree that Transmission Gully is a poor route because trucks cannot use it (unless, you had a large enough cutting to ease the grade).

[eurokiwi78]

I suspect there has been a few back handers paid by whomever wins the contract to build these ronps.

And for the billionth time, five and a half of those projects were proposed under previous governments.

That doesnt mean backhanders were not part of the process. Cullen was no more a saint in that regard than is replacement.

Incidentally, if Transmission Gully is to be steeper than the Ngauranga Gorge presumably it will also be subject to similar speed limits? The Ngauranga Gorge is 80km/h so the 27km long Transmission Gully could legally take 20minutes. Last time I drove the existing route it took me 18 min from where TMG leaves and rejoins SH1. Admittedly this was not at peak time.

27km at 100km/h would take 16 minutes so a time saving of 2min over the current route at best.

[PBY at Home]

yep thats about right. 2 minutes time saving, but around 7 minutes during peak traffic ha been mentioned.

[eurokiwi78]

I havent seen any fuel consumption figures for the two respective routes, that could be interesting to see.

The best thing that would come out of TMG is the communities of Pukerua Bay, Plimmerton, Mana and to a lesser extent Paekak would become more pleasant. Plus the coastal route could become a 50km/h local road with the revocation process. Cycling the coastal route might become more attractive with less traffic and a lower speed.

Of course a lower speed on the coastal route could actually increase travel time for those communities which TMG bypasses.

[grunter]

I suspect there has been a few back handers paid by whomever wins the contract to build these ronps.

And for the billionth time, five and a half of those projects were proposed under previous governments.

That doesnt mean backhanders were not part of the process. Cullen was no more a saint in that regard than is replacement.

Incidentally, if Transmission Gully is to be steeper than the Ngauranga Gorge presumably it will also be subject to similar speed limits? The Ngauranga Gorge is 80km/h so the 27km long Transmission Gully could legally take 20minutes. Last time I drove the existing route it took me 18 min from where TMG leaves and rejoins SH1. Admittedly this was not at peak time.

27km at 100km/h would take 16 minutes so a time saving of 2min over the current route at best.

Two points- the Gorge is restricted to 80 for traffic voloume reasons- it did used to be 100- and second, even if the steepest part of the TG route is subject to an 80k limit, that will not apply to the whole 27km of it, so your time estimate is properly longer than need be, especially for off peak times.
Its also important to condider the wider benefits to times on the other route. Journey times for residents travlleing around Mana/Plimmerton, Pukerua Bay and Paekakariki will also improve due to the reduced traffic volumes along the current SH1. Paekakariki residents could gain several minutes in peak time just though the reduced time speant at the Give Way signs getting out of Beach Rd.

[pickle]

Sorry why is changing speed limits really a problem? This road is a huge waste of money, even worse than Puhoi to Wellsford. Wellington does not need this road. This is supposed to be a time when the government is in deficit, we need to make sure that we are going into debt for very good reasons only. A road that has a BCR of 0.3 is not a good use of money. I could think of plenty of ways to spend the billions of dollars required for this Road of National Party Stupidity.

[john-ston]

Sorry why is changing speed limits really a problem?

It unnecessarily slows down long distance traffic, and as others have pointed out, having a busy highway as your main street is not a good thing for your community. When I came back from Hamilton recently, I stopped by Pokeno for an ice cream and it was pleasant - you didn't have hundreds of vehicles whizzing by.

This is supposed to be a time when the government is in deficit, we need to make sure that we are going into debt for very good reasons only.

Like giving welfare to the middle classes so they can breed

[locost_bryan]

The trucking companies could always use gruntier trucks.

I do agree that Transmission Gully is a poor route because trucks cannot use it (unless, you had a large enough cutting to ease the grade).

Maximum gradient 8% NZTA. That is the same as sections of the Mangaweka deviation on SH1 (Toe Toe Stream), which hasn't deterred truckies in the slightest. Auckland Harbour Bridge is 5%, iirc ALPURT was designed to not exceed that.

[scooter]

Maximum gradient 8% NZTA. That is the same as sections of the Mangaweka deviation on SH1 (Toe Toe Stream), which hasn't deterred truckies in the slightest. Auckland Harbour Bridge is 5%, iirc ALPURT was designed to not exceed that.

They dont really have any alternative to that massively long drag up the hill heading north from Mangaweka, and that was a vast improvement on what the road was before the huge realignment between 1972 and 1980. So whats there now is faster than what there was. I don't know if compared the current coast road if TG offers the same improvement to transit times for the truckies

[pickle]

Like giving welfare to the middle classes so they can breed

Sorry to say this but I cannot stand you spreading misinformation around here. At a time in difficult economic conditions obviously the amount on welfare must increase not decrease. Working for families has been a major success and has definitely been a factor in controlling poverty and crime within the country. You obviously seem to think its as simple as just cutting it and having a whole lot of extra money. Welfare is something worth paying because it has great benefits, a motorway that has a BCR of 0.3 is worth it.

[pickle]

Wellington is in the process of conducting a major upgrade to its rail line to serve the people of Kapati. New trains, line extensions etc. All the money spent on it will be wasted if this motorway goes ahead.

[scooter]

Like giving welfare to the middle classes so they can breed

Sorry to say this but I cannot stand you spreading misinformation around here. At a time in difficult economic conditions obviously the amount on welfare must increase not decrease. Working for families has been a major success and has definitely been a factor in controlling poverty and crime within the country. You obviously seem to think its as simple as just cutting it and having a whole lot of extra money. Welfare is something worth paying because it has great benefits, a motorway that has a BCR of 0.3 is worth it.

Welfare should be something thats there as a safety net, not a lifestyle which it has become for some. That irks me no end.

[pickle]

Its a very typical attitude of middle and upper class New Zealanders to be skeptical of welfare and come up with all these elaborate ideas about the lavish lifestyles that beneficiaries live. With a few very small exceptions this is far from the case.

[scooter]

Its a very typical attitude of middle and upper class New Zealanders to be skeptical of welfare and come up with all these elaborate ideas about the lavish lifestyles that beneficiaries live. With a few very small exceptions this is far from the case.

Who said anything about lavish? I have sympathy for those who are on welfare through no real fault of their own - thats the safety net to prevent utterly abject poverty. Those who make lifestyle out of it and show no sort of personal responsibility - none at all.

Oh, and pickle, Ive worked with beneficiaries, and seen the different attitudes. Those who feel ashamed and embarrased to be on the DPB etc, and those got couldnt really give a sh1t about things and openly admit theyre bludging.

[john-ston]

Sorry to say this but I cannot stand you spreading misinformation around here. At a time in difficult economic conditions obviously the amount on welfare must increase not decrease.

Yes, but on people who need it, not people who are in the middle classes (and most definitely not for people in the top tax bracket).

Working for families has been a major success and has definitely been a factor in controlling poverty and crime within the country.

It definitely worked - the fertility rate skyrockted.

You obviously seem to think its as simple as just cutting it and having a whole lot of extra money. Welfare is something worth paying because it has great benefits, a motorway that has a BCR of 0.3 is worth it.

So, you would rather have hundreds of trucks driving through the streets of Plimmerton, Pukerua Bay and Paekakariki then?

Maximum gradient 8% NZTA. That is the same as sections of the Mangaweka deviation on SH1 (Toe Toe Stream), which hasn't deterred truckies in the slightest. Auckland Harbour Bridge is 5%, iirc ALPURT was designed to not exceed that.

They dont really have any alternative to that massively long drag up the hill heading north from Mangaweka, and that was a vast improvement on what the road was before the huge realignment between 1972 and 1980. So whats there now is faster than what there was. I don't know if compared the current coast road if TG offers the same improvement to transit times for the truckies

For that matter, how long is the drag up Mangaweka. The rail equivalent might be comparing that short portion of 1 in 33 on the line to Helensville with the Otira Tunnel.

Who said anything about lavish? I have sympathy for those who are on welfare through no real fault of their own - thats the safety net to prevent utterly abject poverty. Those who make lifestyle out of it and show no sort of personal responsibility - none at all.

Precisely, and for that matter, welfare for people who are on the top tax bracket. I'm sorry, but $70,000 per annum doesn't make you poor.

[pickle]

John-Ston I'm sorry to continue this further but WFF is simply a way of recognising that children increase costs of living and is a small contribution to this.

[scooter]

Maximum gradient 8% NZTA. That is the same as sections of the Mangaweka deviation on SH1 (Toe Toe Stream), which hasn't deterred truckies in the slightest. Auckland Harbour Bridge is 5%, iirc ALPURT was designed to not exceed that.

They dont really have any alternative to that massively long drag up the hill heading north from Mangaweka, and that was a vast improvement on what the road was before the huge realignment between 1972 and 1980. So whats there now is faster than what there was. I don't know if compared the current coast road if TG offers the same improvement to transit times for the truckies

For that matter, how long is the drag up Mangaweka. The rail equivalent might be comparing that short portion of 1 in 33 on the line to Helensville with the Otira Tunnel

At a guess... 2.5kms heading north, 2 kms heading south. Basically getting over the big hill between Mangaweka and Utiku where the river terraces on the western side dont exist, and where the main trunk used to run through via tunnels before they shifted it across to the other side

[john-ston]

John-Ston I'm sorry to continue this further but WFF is simply a way of recognising that children increase costs of living and is a small contribution to this.

Answered in the Lounge Thread (I didn't expect to be using that thread again).