Capital Connection Under Threat

[geoff_184]

...prior to Waikanae opening, it was known that the Capital Connection was barely making a profit and the loss of all those Waikanae passengers would have probably tipped the service from profitable to loss making

The first post in this thread was only a year ago, well after Waikanae opened.

Meanwhile, this item would indicate the NZTA are going to ensure a subsidy does not happen:

Lack of cash for capital connection concerns councils

Radio NZ
Updated at 7:48 pm on 17 May 2012

Two regional councils say the fate of the Capital Connection train service between Palmertson North and Wellington hinges on the Transport Agency, which is refusing to stump up cash for the service.

The Capital Connection has been losing several hundred dollars a day since other commuter trains began servicing Paraparaumu and Waikanae more than a year ago and KiwiRail says it can't keep absorbing the losses.

The Wellington, and Manawatu-Wanganui Regional Councils, both say they would subsidise the service if the Transport Agency contributed, too.

But the Transport Agency says there is no congestion problem between Wellington and Palmerston North, so there is no justification for it investing.

Copyright © 2012, Radio New Zealand

That last line is interesting. Does that mean no justification for upgrading SH1 as well, since there is no congestion problem?

[greenwelly]

Lack of cash for capital connection concerns councils

Radio NZ
Updated at 7:48 pm on 17 May 2012

But the Transport Agency says there is no congestion problem between Wellington and Palmerston North, so there is no justification for it investing.
Copyright © 2012, Radio New Zealand

That last line is interesting. Does that mean no justification for upgrading SH1 as well, since there is no congestion problem?

The RNZ story is a misquote

TA's line is there is not a congestion problem between Palmerston North and Waikanae,

[john-ston]

The first post in this thread was only a year ago, well after Waikanae opened.

Although look at the posts from September and October - particularly an article you quoted on September 6.

[pickle]

Thank you to Eurokiwi and John-Ston, fully agree with you there. To me it certainly seems suspiciously ironic that the announcements of Transmission Gully and Capital Connection came within days of each other.

[geoff_184]

TA's line is there is not a congestion problem between Palmerston North and Waikanae,

So no upgrade to SH1 north of Waikanae planned?

And the Manawatu Standard editorial today:

Capital Connection appears doomed

Manawatu Standard: Editorial
MICHAEL CUMMINGS - EDITOR
18/05/2012

OPINION: It looks like it could be the end of the line for the Capital Connection.

As reported in yesterday's Manawatu Standard, KiwiRail has said if Horizons Regional Council and Greater Wellington regional council don't agree to subsidise the Palmerston North to Wellington rail service with ratepayer funding, it will stop running "midyear".

The service has been under threat since the capital's metro services extended to Waikanae in February last year, giving many Capital Connection commuters the option of a competing service that runs more frequently.

KiwiRail said it would monitor the impact the extended Wellington commuter service had on the number of passengers using the Capital Connection to assess its long-term viability, and it seems the verdict is now in.

While not all hope is lost, it's incredibly unlikely that Horizons and Greater Wellington will be able to save the day. Even if the two councils can muster the political and ratepayer support to subsidise the Capital Connection, both agree the NZ Transport Agency would also have to make a contribution to get a deal over the line – something the NZTA says it won't do.

Palmerston North MP Iain Lees-Galloway has led a public campaign to keep the rail service running, and the region has voiced strong opposition to axing it. However, the stark reality is that positive public sentiment has not translated to more bums on seats.

As the travelling public has failed to support the Capital Connection in a practical sense despite extensive publicity around its precarious future, it will be difficult for Horizons to convince ratepayers they should stump up to save it.

Even if ratepayers were on board, it's questionable whether KiwiRail was ever genuinely committed to retaining the service, which might go some way to explaining the incredibly tight "midyear" deadline it's given Horizons and Greater Wellington to come up with a plan to save it. The Government-owned company has been far from candid with the public about how the Capital Connection was being affected by the competing Wellington service, and gave mixed messages about its long-term future.

It's also curious to note that KiwiRail has called on Horizons to subsidise the rail service only now the regional council's long-term plan process is well past the point it can seek ratepayers' views on the matter. Horizons won't be able to properly consult the public on a Capital Connection subsidy until next year's annual plan process – long after KiwiRail's "midyear" time frame.

Unfortunately for this region, there is little chance the rail service can be saved, and it now seems clear that there never really was.

- © Fairfax NZ News

[Jonthekiwi]

I wonder where Geoff stands on the issue of Kiwirail receiving a subsidy from the Govt and councils for the CC? I guess the same stance as for the Waikato Commuter service, so he will be pleased to see this service end.

[john-ston]

Something else I just realised - didn't someone say a few weeks back that there might be an issue with the new locomotive allocations? As I recall, someone pointed out that the DXBs are being shifted away from the lower North Island and being replaced with pieces of crap that need no further mention. The costs might have just increased because you would need a locomotive (or two, if using DCs) set aside for the Capital Connection.

[royce]

I wonder if the Capital Connection carriages would be compatable with a SD driving car. Otherwise slap a couple of Locos on them. Bring them up to Auckland to run Pukekohe Waitakere via Newmarket. I am sure Auckland would pay the subsidy Kiwirail feels it is entitled to.

[eurokiwi78]

I wonder if the Capital Connection carriages would be compatable with a SD driving car.

Nope, the S cars are not fitted with graduated release triple valves so they would need to be retrofitted. Or the graduated release function not utilzed on the SA sars they were coupled too which would open a can of worms. Plus the S cars are only single pipe so you would have no way of getting the EP and MR thru to the SD.

Perhaps they could end up forming a 2nd overlander set in time and/or the AK cars could head back south.

[geoff_184]

I guess the same stance as for the Waikato Commuter service, so he will be pleased to see this service end.

As usual you get it wrong, no I am not pleased it's likely to end. I rode the very first service back in 1991, and would rather see it continue.

Unlike you, I recognize that the figures have likely been tweaked to make it unviable, and therefore anyone who supports a subsidy to cover that tweaking, also supports the tweaking.

Jon, your acceptance of the mantra that passenger trains should be made the most expensive form of land transport in order to create profit is well known. I well recall your absolute refusal to question the artificially high costs of the Waikato Connection.

You don't need to keep reminding me that you are in complete agreement with the National Party view that KiwiRail's passenger trains must follow a commercial model that is only viable with ratepayer funding on top of the existing taxpayer funding. Certainly you never argued against it, and on the contrary, lobbied for it.

Fancy that, lobbying for a funding system that will never fly, and therefore result in no train. Perhaps you are a wolf in sheep's clothing? You took off to the same place Fay Richwhite fled to, after all

[Rail-it]

I wonder if the Capital Connection carriages would be compatable with a SD driving car.

Nope, the S cars are not fitted with graduated release triple valves so they would need to be retrofitted. Or the graduated release function not utilzed on the SA sars they were coupled too which would open a can of worms. Plus the S cars are only single pipe so you would have no way of getting the EP and MR thru to the SD.

Perhaps they could end up forming a 2nd overlander set in time and/or the AK cars could head back south.

Could try single piping the SD car... the triple valve on them can be set for direct releasing, but without MR available, door operation won't work as it should do. Then additionally, if the SD car has S ride bogies, the air bags probably won't work as well either.

Then there is also the problem of being able to apply the loco brakes when SD leading too, as EP isn't avialable either! lol.

So doing either isn't really a possiblility, just a can of worms as you say.

[robincole]

So the Transport Agency will only cough up some money if there's some benefit to motorists. What about benefits to the enviroment ? Obviously that doesn't count.

[Chris Randal.]

I guess the same stance as for the Waikato Commuter service, so he will be pleased to see this service end.

As usual you get it wrong, no I am not pleased it's likely to end. I rode the very first service back in 1991, and would rather see it continue.

Unlike you, I recognize that the figures have likely been tweaked to make it unviable, and therefore anyone who supports a subsidy to cover that tweaking, also supports the tweaking.

Jon, your acceptance of the mantra that passenger trains should be made the most expensive form of land transport in order to create profit is well known. I well recall your absolute refusal to question the artificially high costs of the Waikato Connection.

You don't need to keep reminding me that you are in complete agreement with the National Party view that KiwiRail's passenger trains must follow a commercial model that is only viable with ratepayer funding on top of the existing taxpayer funding. Certainly you never argued against it, and on the contrary, lobbied for it.

Fancy that, lobbying for a funding system that will never fly, and therefore result in no train. Perhaps you are a wolf in sheep's clothing? You took off to the same place Fay Richwhite fled to, after all

Besides KR have made it perfectly clear that they want out of passenger - that is why when the EMUs come they will be transferring a lot of LEs from KR to VT.

I agree with this philosophy - the saving of KR does not lie in passenger, it lies in freight.

[Rail-it]

Besides KR have made it perfectly clear that they want out of passenger - that is why when the EMUs come they will be transferring a lot of LEs from KR to VT.

Where do you get your source of information from? It has been rumoured, but thats all it is-rumour. In fact are you actually aware of how much KR make out of the Auckland metro?

[john-ston]

In fact are you actually aware of how much KR make out of the Auckland metro?

Must be all the locomotive leases - it will be interesting to see how much of an impact electrification will have on the Kiwi Rail bottom line.

[royce]

I wonder if the Capital Connection carriages would be compatable with a SD driving car.

Nope, the S cars are not fitted with graduated release triple valves so they would need to be retrofitted. Or the graduated release function not utilzed on the SA sars they were coupled too which would open a can of worms. Plus the S cars are only single pipe so you would have no way of getting the EP and MR thru to the SD.

Perhaps they could end up forming a 2nd overlander set in time and/or the AK cars could head back south.

Could try single piping the SD car... the triple valve on them can be set for direct releasing, but without MR available, door operation won't work as it should do. Then additionally, if the SD car has S ride bogies, the air bags probably won't work as well either.

Then there is also the problem of being able to apply the loco brakes when SD leading too, as EP isn't avialable either! lol.

So doing either isn't really a possiblility, just a can of worms as you say.

Um a mere layman like myself would wonder why there couldnt be a standard system. Is there some reason for the differences after all they are all locomotive hauled carriages. Maybe Kiwirail charges Tranz Scenic and Veiolla for training the locomotive crews for different systems but in fact it is a cost for the overall rail system.

[Rail-it]

Um a mere layman like myself would wonder why there couldnt be a standard system. Is there some reason for the differences after all they are all locomotive hauled carriages. Maybe Kiwirail charges Tranz Scenic and Veiolla for training the locomotive crews for different systems but in fact it is a cost for the overall rail system.

Makes common sense to have a standard system, but when going into details for operational requirements, thats where things change.

For example, when the S cars came into service there was no passengers cars on the network using graduated braking. When the SA's came into service, the doors were being operated more regularly, which made use of MR air supply which met the greater demand of air operated opening doors.

Also the triple valves are MR fed on SA cars which means the BP increases much more quickly than the likes of S cars. This makes the SA's more realistic in operation for their repetitive stopping patterns in metro service. - Having just straight air braking therotically means the brakes take longer to release.

Now we have the AK cars, which are guess what this time around... graduated releasing brakes. lol.

In regards to Kiwirail charging for staff training... If it involves a freight LE or a current LE operating Tranz Scenic services, their training is fairly minimal. The same would go for instance/example, if an LE transferred from Palmerston North to Westfield who operates freight trains, and comes to drive SA trains, it's basically just a going over of the SA cars(mechanical) and the rest comes through road knowledge trips. Nothing excessive in cost there. But however if an SA only certifed LE in Auckland converts to freight... you are talking some big $$ there.

[axio]

So the Transport Agency will only cough up some money if there's some benefit to motorists. What about benefits to the enviroment ? Obviously that doesn't count.

Or any one of a number of metrics...

What about productivity, something that seems quite important to this government (since the only way we ever get out of deficit if is the 'hope' that the economy will grow) - I can work on a train, I can't while driving.

What about safety - I would have thought less motorists means less chances of accidents.

[axio]

There is also the weirdness of local government boundaries in all of this.

Masterton, a city of roughly 20,000 people, has five weekday services with a journey time of 1h 45m, which are subsidized by GWRC.

Levin, a town of roughly 19,500 people, has one weekday service with a journey time of 1hr 35m, which is not subsidized and now under threat. This is not withstanding Palmerston North with it's 20 min driving catchment of around 100,000 (and a journey time of marginally over 2 hours which admittedly means it is pushing the definition of commuter somewhat).

Would it be different if they were in the same region?

[greenwelly]

There is also the weirdness of local government boundaries in all of this.
Masterton, a city of roughly 20,000 people, has five weekday services with a journey time of 1h 45m, which are subsidized by GWRC.

Levin, a town of roughly 19,500 people, has one weekday service with a journey time of 1hr 35m, which is not subsidized and now under threat. This is not withstanding Palmerston North with it's 20 min driving catchment of around 100,000 (and a journey time of marginally over 2 hours which admittedly means it is pushing the definition of commuter somewhat).

Would it be different if they were in the same region?

The issue is probably more one of "centres of gravity" rather than just plain distance and population

Masterton is not the main source of patrons for the service and there are another nearly 20K in the settlements closer to the Hill with a well established commuter flow to Wellington.

The 2006 census listed around 450 from North of Waikanae working in Wellington (Levin 213,Foxton 18,Shannon 9,Otaki 210)
But there were over 1000 from the Wairarapa ( Masterton 303,Carterton 201,Greytown 141,Featherston 300,Martinborough 75)