Parnell Station Discussion

[pcuser42]

The only complaint I have is that it scares this railfan to death that we'll still have the ADKs running our rails in 2040

Yes, I was scared as well!

I couldn't help but noticing Parnell station is on the map, even though he never mentioned it in the video.

[john-ston]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=mcTmFk2KfFs

Fantastic video really. Well put together. The only complaint I have is that it scares this railfan to death that we'll still have the ADKs running our rails in 2040

Of course it is what Brown didn't tell you that is of more concern. What about the family in Howick who would still have to put up with an hour and a half long trip by public transport to get into the CBD? What about in general when the system hits capacity yet again? These are the questions that need to be asked and the points that need to be made.

I couldn't help but noticing Parnell station is on the map, even though he never mentioned it in the video.

Except that Parnell was located right by the old Auckland Station.

[vworp]

The only complaint I have is that it scares this railfan to death that we'll still have the ADKs running our rails in 2040

Yes, I was scared as well!

I couldn't help but noticing Parnell station is on the map, even though he never mentioned it in the video.

Parnell is almost guaranteed to go ahead though - not a big issue in the scheme of the video. It was a shame he didn't mention it in the context of the 'learning precinct'.

[john-ston]

Parnell is almost guaranteed to go ahead though - not a big issue in the scheme of the video. It was a shame he didn't mention it in the context of the 'learning precinct'.

Because no Uni student in their right mind will use it - no matter where you put it, the station would be inside some bushes.

[pcuser42]

no matter where you put it, the station would be inside some bushes.

Not if you remove them

[Nick R]

The only complaint I have is that it scares this railfan to death that we'll still have the ADKs running our rails in 2040

Yes, I was scared as well!

I couldn't help but noticing Parnell station is on the map, even though he never mentioned it in the video.

Parnell is almost guaranteed to go ahead though - not a big issue in the scheme of the video. It was a shame he didn't mention it in the context of the 'learning precinct'.

Remember it's not for the learning precinct. The fools at Parnell Inc. have done their damndest to make it not very useful for students, they want it for their little village and their little village alone.

Note I'm not just being nasty here, they actually said that in a series of emails. They don't want students to use it and think students should just walk up the hill from Britomart to keep Parnell 'for tourists '. Morons, design a station for a few hundred people who might visit the Museum or Parnell Village over the 35,000 that go to the university campuses every day!

Because no Uni student in their right mind will use it - no matter where you put it, the station would be inside some bushes.

Not if they put it where Arta wanted to put it initially, on a slightly elevated position overlooking Carlaw Park ave and the new National Library building. A location in a commercial area near the main street would have made it far more safe feeling than one a few hundred metres up into the bush.

[john-ston]

Not if they put it where Arta wanted to put it initially, on a slightly elevated position overlooking Carlaw Park ave and the new National Library building. A location in a commercial area near the main street would have made it far more safe feeling than one a few hundred metres up into the bush.

Nick, as I have physically shown pcuser (and really need to take a picture of one day), there is the main forest, a small gap with a fence line, and then another smaller bush. The position by Carlaw Park Avenue would be within the smaller bush, and having been on a train through there during the day time, even that location is quite secluded and I would hate to be there at night.

[geoff_184]

design a station for a few hundred people who might visit the Museum or Parnell Village over the 35,000 that go to the university campuses every day!

Parnell users will be additional. Uni users will just be existing Britomart passengers changing to a new station, so no gain. What's more, the two sites are so incredibly close together that there is really little difference anyway.

[Nick R]

Nick, as I have physically shown pcuser (and really need to take a picture of one day), there is the main forest, a small gap with a fence line, and then another smaller bush. The position by Carlaw Park Avenue would be within the smaller bush, and having been on a train through there during the day time, even that location is quite secluded and I would hate to be there at night.

I'm not sure where you are talking about but the site I'm referring to only has a carpark between it and Carlaw Park Ave. There are a handful of bushes and shrubs around but one assumes they would get 'landscaped' out if they built a station there. I spend aover an hour clambering around up there in January looking at both sites closely, to the point of tresspass probably

Parnell users will be additional. Uni users will just be existing Britomart passengers changing to a new station, so no gain. What's more, the two sites are so incredibly close together that there is really little difference anyway.

Not so, you take ten minutes off the journey to uni and you don't think more people will start using it? Next time you pass through Parnell check your watch and see how long it takes you to get down to Britomart, head upstairs and then walk over to the foot of Anzac Ave. That would be the time saving.

And yes I know you think 300m is incredibly close but I don't agree. When you already have to walk 3-400m to reach anything of interest an extra 300m is the difference between quick and handy and long and frustrating.

[jarbury]

Catch a New North Road bus one day and suggest to me that most Uni students along that corridor take the train.

[geoff_184]

And yes I know you think 300m is incredibly close but I don't agree. When you already have to walk 3-400m to reach anything of interest an extra 300m is the difference between quick and handy and long and frustrating.

Maybe for invalids or very lazy people, but for normal people, walking an extra couple of minutes is a non issue. You say a ten minute saving would apply to uni students, yet the chosen site is itself only a 2-3 minute walk from the site you wanted, so presumably you believe they are not interested in saving 7-8 minutes? Doesn't make much sense to me

[Nick R]

Two thing Geoff, firstly I was talking about the total journey time, a lot of the saving comes from not taking extra time to go past the university to downtown only to come back again. So yes hopping of early at Parnell would save you seven to ten minutes on the trip to Uni (depending on the station site) over hopping off later and walking further from Britomart.

However the second factor is that people won't walk indefinitely. You may call them lazy but the fact is very few people will routinely walk much more than a kilometre to get to or from a station. The sweet spot is up to about five or six hundred metres and peoples willingness to walk rapidly drops off above that. I walk a heap myself and get frustrated with friends who moan about walking for twenty minutes, but that's how most people are and we have to design the system to suit the majority.

Currently Britomart is about a thousand metres walk from the core of the uni campus and as a result the train isn't hugely popular with students. Like Jarbury says the stick to the buses that get them closer. A station by mainline steam is a very similar distance, about 900m or so by the most direct route. So it might save seven minutes off the trip but if few people are willing to make the walk required as part of that trip then few are going to take the option.

On the other hand a station at Arta's old preferred site gets the walk down to about six hundred metres, bringing the university within the acceptable walk distance of most people. So it knocks ten minutes off the trip time plus brings the walk distance down to a point where a lot more people would consider the train a reasonable option. End result is the closer station would see a huge boost in patronage, while the further station wouldn't see much difference. The Arta review picked up on this, they predicted that the lower station would attract roughly double the patronage of the upper site.

Like I said, in this case 300m is the difference between relatively easy and accessible for most people vs. not an option for most people.

[Daniel]

Remember it's not for the learning precinct. The fools at Parnell Inc. have done their damndest to make it not very useful for students, they want it for their little village and their little village alone.

Note I'm not just being nasty here, they actually said that in a series of emails. They don't want students to use it and think students should just walk up the hill from Britomart to keep Parnell 'for tourists '. Morons, design a station for a few hundred people who might visit the Museum or Parnell Village over the 35,000 that go to the university campuses every day!

Gotta agree with you on this it looks like an opportunity missed thanks to unrealistic, selfish and small-minded thinking on behalf of Parnell.

Nick, as I have physically shown pcuser (and really need to take a picture of one day), there is the main forest, a small gap with a fence line, and then another smaller bush. The position by Carlaw Park Avenue would be within the smaller bush, and having been on a train through there during the day time, even that location is quite secluded and I would hate to be there at night.

I really think you're being paranoid about the prospect of being molested after hours at a train station. Aside from the fact there should be lighting and security cameras (which I know aren't a guarantee) there's a good chance the station would be heavily patronised after hours anyway by other students and local residents, which would be a repellent to sex attackers and muggers. People have been using public transport after hours in cities all over New Zealand and especially using them at usually leafy University Campus' for years. How often have there been attacks?

Parnell users will be additional. Uni users will just be existing Britomart passengers changing to a new station, so no gain. What's more, the two sites are so incredibly close together that there is really little difference anyway.

If it's 300m more convenient I can still see more desirability even for students especially if they're a bit knackered. And with the prospect of a CBD tunnel and line to the airport and possibly a link to the north shore, surely it would be desirable for existing Britomart passengers to change to a new station and lower congestion?

[Riggles]

I see he points out all these cool places in Auckland that people will want to come here and see, only issue is that his planned rail network doesn't take you to any of them. Well very few of them.

Then there is this poor woman who catches the train to Akoranga only to have to walk another 2km to her office.

[geoff_184]

Like I said, in this case 300m is the difference between relatively easy and accessible for most people vs. not an option for most people.

But the sites are so close together, you can stand at one end of one, and almost be at the start of the other. Practically the same location.

Sorry, but your argument about willingness to walk such a tiny distance is ludicrous. I walk 450m to the dairy in Swanson Rd in 5 minutes, and 5 minutes back. 900m, but it feels like nothing at all. If I jog, I cover that 900m and buy my items, almost within the span of a TV ad break.

300m a problem? Rubbish!

[geoff_184]

If it's 300m more convenient I can still see more desirability even for students especially if they're a bit knackered.

Actually, having just looked at the map, the extra walking distance to uni is only 160m over the other option. So really it makes no tangible difference. Heck, my neighbour's driveway is 100m long.

[Nick R]

But the sites are so close together, you can stand at one end of one, and almost be at the start of the other. Practically the same location.

It's 300m between platform centers, i.e. 300m between entrances.

300m metres isn't practically the same location, its about a third of a kilometre extra. That's like saying the Skytower and Aotea square are practically the same location, or that Queen St and Hobson St are practically the same location.

Sorry, but your argument about willingness to walk such a tiny distance is ludicrous. I walk 450m to the dairy in Swanson Rd in 5 minutes, and 5 minutes back. 900m, but it feels like nothing at all. If I jog, I cover that 900m and buy my items, almost within the span of a TV ad break.

300m a problem? Rubbish!

It's not my argument, there is a wealth of research behind how far most people will walk to access transit. You and I may have no problem walking for more than ten minutes, but for the bulk of the population distances close to a kilometre are unacceptable. Remember we aren't taking about willingness to walk a mere three hundred metres, just about everyone is willing to do that, we are talking about willingness to walk an further three hundred metres on top of what is already a fairly long walk for the average person.

Having the station half way up the gully makes the walk to the university precinct about 50% longer than if it were at the bottom of the gully. That is enough to turn a 600m walk that most people are happy to do, into a 900m walk that most people are not happy to do. How is that so hard to understand?

Consider this, if your dairy was twice as far (900m there and 900m back) then it would take you twenty minutes to make a round trip and you would miss almost the whole show, let alone one ad break. Now do you see the difference and extra few hundred metres can make? Oh but it's only 450m metres right? 450m a problem? Rubbish!
Well it is an 450 extra metres that means you can no longer just jog over in a coupe of minutes when ever you feel like it. It's 450m extra that makes your trip to the dairy all the more inconvenient, probably to the point where you would have to plan ahead of when you could spare the time to do a little shopping.

[Rail-it]

I totally agree with Geoff.

The lazy thinking and planning looks bad, especially when the elderly and disabled cover kms in distance to catch trains and buses on foot, at various locations all across the city(and many over towns and cities in NZ)....

We already have an obesity problem in NZ too, walking is a very good way to contribute against that problem.

[john-ston]

I really think you're being paranoid about the prospect of being molested after hours at a train station. Aside from the fact there should be lighting and security cameras (which I know aren't a guarantee) there's a good chance the station would be heavily patronised after hours anyway by other students and local residents, which would be a repellent to sex attackers and muggers. People have been using public transport after hours in cities all over New Zealand and especially using them at usually leafy University Campus' for years. How often have there been attacks?

Uni students avoid Albert Park at night as a rule because of incidents that may or may not have happened in the past. Albert Park is not that heavily bushed, and is probably similar to the vicinity of the proposed Parnell Station site.

Sorry, but your argument about willingness to walk such a tiny distance is ludicrous. I walk 450m to the dairy in Swanson Rd in 5 minutes, and 5 minutes back. 900m, but it feels like nothing at all. If I jog, I cover that 900m and buy my items, almost within the span of a TV ad break.

What is the incline like on your walk?

[Miggle]

Uni students avoid Albert Park at night as a rule because of incidents that may or may not have happened in the past. Albert Park is not that heavily bushed, and is probably similar to the vicinity of the proposed Parnell Station site.

I always saw a fair amount of foot traffic through Albert Park when I used to head back from uni around 10pm or later. I'm sure many people do avoid it at night but I wouldn't call it a rule.