Southerner

[rail_up]

Does anyone have, or can anyone point to, a set of figures that shows exactly what costs are involved in running a long distance passenger rail service in NZ?

As an example, a new bus costs around $500,000, diesel is $1.50 a litre, RUC are a fixed amount per km for a bus, cost of the driver's wages and so on. So not too hard to work out.
I've just never seen any practical running costs vs passenger fares to make a valid and informed judgement when it comes to rail.

[grunter]

That doesn't sound right. With DMU's or railcars you're using more engines for longer trains. With one locomotive hauling many carriages you've got the one engine dragging the same passenger capacity.

I'm pretty certain that Diesel locomotives are the best way to go about long-distance services with no/few intermediate stops.

I have found this article on the pro and cons of using DMU's versus locomotives.
http://nethelper.com/article/Multiple_unit
Most countries seem to be moving towards DMU's.
Of course a modern DMU set would be much more fuel efficient than a locomotive hauled set especially one pulled by an elderly DC locomotive which is what Kiwirail would use if they were forced to reinstate the Southerner.
I understand Taieri Gorge Railway is interested in some type of railcar or DMU for this very reason.

What it will come down to is what other services/operations does the company run? For a mixed operation, like Kiwirail, a locomotive hauling carriages by day and freight by night is the way to go, even if the cost of the passennger train is higher a little.

A specilist company running only passenger trains, has no use for the locomotives elsewhere, so DMU would be a better option for them.
What is happening overseas is greater seperation of freight and passenger bussiness, with most passenger services now being run by passenger companies.

[royce]

What it will come down to is what other services/operations does the company run? For a mixed operation, like Kiwirail, a locomotive hauling carriages by day and freight by night is the way to go, even if the cost of the passennger train is higher a little.

A specilist company running only passenger trains, has no use for the locomotives elsewhere, so DMU would be a better option for them.
What is happening overseas is greater seperation of freight and passenger bussiness, with most passenger services now being run by passenger companies.

True but we have had railcars or DMU's in the past. The 88 seater used to be able to be coupled together as are the Silverferns. Every time someone mentions the silver ferns on this web site Kiwirail says right we will keep them parked up in the yard at Wellington for another month. I think some one down there likes to be able to look out the windows at them. Still I suppose no different to Mainline steam, Steam incoporated and the Piahatua railcar group who are probably providing the competition for them.

[DFT7008]

how about a dsc and 4 or 5 high side wagons with the rust holes bogged up. You could squeeze in a fair few back packers (you can fit 22 bales of hay in a highsider) and charge them all $1 like NakedBus do. And if it rains you can sell them optional ponchos sourced from the $2 shop as extras (like the airlines do) for $5 each.

LOL

[Johnny T]

Would love to see this service reinstated.

Re people using it, hard to say but tourists using the Tranz Alpine may be inclined to 'tack' this one on as well, particularly if they have one of those passes that Tranz-scenic sells.

http://www.tranzscenic.co.nz/other-serv ... rail-pass/

Maybe then also have a tie up of some kind with Taieri Gorge Railway?

[royce]

Oamaru is a lovely town when you get past the sixties houses and view the Oamaru stone buildings on the main street. Plus the historic street by the harbour the steam punk and the penquins. Its all got potential but I cant see that Tranz scenic has the ability to exploit it. I think the answer is to give the Taieri gorge people a decent crack at it by giving them some reasonable track access fees.

[grunter]

Would love to see this service reinstated.

Re people using it, hard to say but tourists using the Tranz Alpine may be inclined to 'tack' this one on as well, particularly if they have one of those passes that Tranz-scenic sells.

http://www.tranzscenic.co.nz/other-serv ... rail-pass/

Maybe then also have a tie up of some kind with Taieri Gorge Railway?

They didn't before. Why would they now. Most of the tourists passing though Christchurch then head stright to Queenston, or if they have already done that then out of the country back to thier home.

Note most means perhaps 75% of the international visitors- domestic travellers are a different bunch, but tend to want to take thier car. Its important to remember is that not many people want to use the train for travle, but are keen on day excurions. Easily 90% plus passengers on the Alpine are just going for the scenery and get off the train back where they boarded it. Its hard to see a market for that based on going to Dunedin and back, and whats left (less than 10% overall passenger numbers) is not sufficent to make the train viable

[Johnny T]

They didn't before. Why would they now. Most of the tourists passing though Christchurch then head stright to Queenston, or if they have already done that then out of the country back to thier home.

Point taken, but to compare apples with apples, you would need to look at how patronage has improved on the remaining services in the time since the Southerner was, myopically in my view, discontinued.

If done properly the demand is there, and as Royce says, towns like Oamaru also have plenty to offer.

[kanusradiata]

Part of the problem is that TranzRail (like KiwiRail) does not see long distance passenger trains as a viable competitor in the "intercity" transport market and are leaving it to the airlines and coach lines instead... In other words, the train journey itself is the attraction by providing tourists a nice way to "gawk at the scenery"

With regards to the Southerner, the problem is that the route doesn't really offer compelling scenery, especially compared to the other two services out of Chch . That rules the Southerner out on the basis of "who would want to spend a $200 on a boring train journey when you can spend the same and go on the TranzAlpine instead?"

From the perspective of the Southerner providing a "competitive mode of transport", the problem here is that it didn't really appeal to the foreign tourist market because Timaru, Oamaru, Dunedin, Gore and Invercargill aren't really cities that attract significant numbers of foreigners... The vast majority of foreign tourists that head south from Christchurch are going to Queenstown and basing themselves there... sorry, no railway to here. For the domestic traveller, since the majority of New Zealand households already own a car, they'd rather just use that instead of catching a train anyhow.

In the future though, with fuel prices increasing and the growing tourism opportunities in Dunedin then it's possible that a Southerner could be reinstated...It will mean KiwiRail needs to break the mindset that they currently have towards long distance passenger rail and local councils would also do themselves some credit if they also look to provide some initial funding to get something going.

[pickle]

A good compromise would be just to have it running between Christchurch and Dunedin and not continuing through to Invercargill to start off with anyway.