Fare increase 2012

[keg]

Being considered by the council today. Reasons behind it best summed up by three words: farebox recovery ratio.

Multi year approach, 3% per year with cash fares rounded to the nearest 50c.

The preferred option will result in the following changes in 2012:

• All multi-trip tickets (ten trip, monthly, quarterly, term tickets) increase by 3%
• Adult cash fares will increase by 50c for 3-14 zone travel. In 2013 the increases will affect zone 2, 7-8 and 11-14 zone travel
• Child cash fares will increase by 50c for 7-9 and 13-14 zone travel (in year two the increases affect 4-6, and 10-12 zone travel).

It is also proposed to abolish the city section fares in 2012. City section fares are now virtually the same as the one zone fares - the only difference is that the city section fare is ten cents per trip less than the one zone fare if the trip is made with a smartcard.

More detail: GWRC Report 12.79 Annual Public Transport Fare Review 2012

DomPost article: Wellington public transport fares to increase

[greenwelly]

Although the question that should be asked of the regional council is why is their farebox target higher than that set by NZTA?

http://www.nzta.govt.nz/resources/gener ... /10-03.pdf

TA's target is 50% ( which the existing fares would meet all the way to 2015/16), But for some reason the regional council have set 55-60% as their farebox ratio???

Now one assumes ( hopefully) that all these ration are derived the same way, so the question remains, why are the Regional Council slugging it to the poor PT traveler

[john-ston]

Frankly, I don't see any harm in having a 3% fare hike each year - after all, that is roughly the rate of inflation.

Certainly better than Brisbane's 15% per year

[eurokiwi78]

As long as the cost of motoring also rises at a similar rate it shouldnt change things too much.

[Matt L]

The NZTA policy sets out that the national farebox recovery needs to be 50% but that means that the big cities need to have higher % to make up for the rural areas/smaller cities where the cost of providing PT is more expensive due to the lack of economies of scale.

As for Wellington's increases more generally, I still think that this is a continuation of previous policy direction where the regional council sees the general PT system as fairly mature and so doesn't really try to do much to improve it. By comparison for as much as we complain about PT in Auckland, AT seems much more aware of what needs to be done to improve things and also has the advantage of there continuing to be massive growth which is helping hold off the need for fare increases. I think it has been at least 2 years now since we last saw one.

[param1974]

As long as the cost of motoring also rises at a similar rate it shouldnt change things too much.

LOL actually the complete opposite.

I wrote about this last year when the prices when up then. See this thread about the Capital Connection prices:

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2945

Here are the new prices
Waikanae to Wellington :

Adult Single: New Price: $14.00 Old price: $13.00
Adult 10trip: New Price: $112 Old price: $108.00
Adult Monthly: New Price: $324.00 Old price: $ $324 (No change)

http://www.tranzscenic.co.nz/services/c ... rices.aspx

Thats an awful amount of money. $14.00 for a one way trip on the capital connection into Wellington! $28 for a return!

Surely the answer is not to push the prices up? Surely bringing the prices down will tempt more people to get out of their cars and into the train?

Compared to the cost of a car. My 1300cc Toyota Yaris gets me from Waikanae, into Wellington and back on about $10. I fill up once a week, and still have plenty of fuel left over for the weekend. I drive in every day. Yes there is parking charges too for those that don’t get it from their company. And then service and licensing/wof costs. Even factoring all that in, its still far cheaper to drive. The costs halve if I carpool with another person!

People need to wake up. Public transport should be getting cheaper, not more expensive. Now wonder we needing new expressways and roads.

Prices have increased since my above post last year. I am still paying $10 per day for a return trip from Waikanae to Wellington. And that price has stayed more or less the same for the last 3years now.

[john-ston]

By comparison for as much as we complain about PT in Auckland, AT seems much more aware of what needs to be done to improve things and also has the advantage of there continuing to be massive growth which is helping hold off the need for fare increases. I think it has been at least 2 years now since we last saw one.

Auckland had a general public transport fare increase in October 2010 (to coincide with the GST hike) and then there was a rail only fare increase in either January or February of last year. I digress, but the Auckland train fares should be increased to match the bus fares and the cash fares should be rounded to the nearest 50c.

[keg]

Auckland had a general public transport fare increase in October 2010 (to coincide with the GST hike) and then there was a rail only fare increase in either January or February of last year. I digress, but the Auckland train fares should be increased to match the bus fares and the cash fares should be rounded to the nearest 50c.

Agree, that's something Auckland could learn from Wellington. Another would be having proper discounts (ie 20%+) for 10-trips and smartcard PAYG. Far too much cash handling onboard up there compared to down here.

[keg]

GW press release:

Regular fare increases necessary
Posted on 27 March 2012

Regular and small increases to Wellington region’s public transport fares are needed to meet increasing costs and service the debts for major improvements, says Peter Glensor, Chair of Greater Wellington’s Economic Wellbeing Committee.

Councillors today agreed that, subject to approval of Greater Wellington’s Long Term Plan and negotiations with operators, some bus, train and harbour ferry fares be increased from October to generate revenue of about 3%. Details of the fare increase will be finalised in the next few months.

An annual 3% increase to fare revenue has been built into Greater Wellington’s draft Long Term Plan 2012-2022 to meet increasing running costs and cover debt servicing for major improvements such as real time information, the new Matangi trains and for proposed new projects such as electronic integrated ticketing.

Peter Glensor says there have been some real improvements in public transport services in the last 12 months. “Real time information, which tells you when your next bus will arrive, is becoming a way of life for Wellington City and Hutt Valley bus commuters, and will soon be rolled out to buses in the northern suburbs and Kapiti. Millions of dollars of work continues to be done to upgrade and maintain the trolley bus network in Wellington City. All new Matangi trains are now running on the Johnsonville Line and more are being brought into service regularly on the Upper Hutt and Kapiti Lines. Commuter train services were extended to Waikanae in February last year and about 120,000 passengers have caught the train to and from Waikanae Station in this time, resulting in a three percent increase in patronage on the Kapiti Line.

“While the Government gives significant funding for these big projects, Greater Wellington provides 10 percent of the funding along with millions of dollars of debt servicing costs each year. We are putting the infrastructure together for a modern, convenient public transport system. It doesn’t happen overnight, it’s not cheap, and more improvements are needed.

Peter Glensor says the Greater Wellington is consulting, through the draft Long Term Plan, on an electronic integrated ticketing system for public transport in the region. “This would enable people to pay with one single card for all bus, train and harbour ferry services and if you were making a journey where you needed to connect between different buses or services you would pay just once.

“Regular fare increases are necessary to ensure that debt servicing costs of major improvements and the costs of providing day to day bus, train and harbour ferry services are paid for equitably through our funding sources: rates, central government and fares.

“Under our own Council policy and Government policy we are required to meet around half of our public transport costs from fare revenue. Without relatively small and regular fare increases, we’ll fall under that line and this would mean having to catch up with a whopping big fare increase in a few years’ time. That’s not acceptable; having small and regular increases is more manageable for most people, particularly regular users. Most of these customers use stored value cards or monthly rail passes.

“However, because our ticketing and fare systems do still involve a proportion of fares being paid by cash, we can’t currently have a small, regular across the board fare increases. For cash handling purposes, particularly on the trains and buses, cash fares need to be $1 or 50c amounts. So, although we need an overall fare revenue increase of about 3% a year, the actual increase to cash fares is disproportionate. For example, a 3% increase on a $4.50 fare would be $4.63 but because any increase needs to be rounded up, increasing it to $5 results in an increase of more than 10 percent. To lessen and even out the impact, we’re envisaging that only some cash fares would increase.” Details will be available when negotiations with operators have taken place.

Consultation on Greater Wellington’s draft Long Term Plan, which assumes an annual 3% increase in fare revenue, is now being held. Find out more about the plan and give your feedback or look out for the brochure in your letterbox this week. To give your feedback on the proposed fare revenue increase, please comment in the “other comments” section in the feedback form.

[Matt L]

Auckland had a general public transport fare increase in October 2010 (to coincide with the GST hike) and then there was a rail only fare increase in either January or February of last year. I digress, but the Auckland train fares should be increased to match the bus fares and the cash fares should be rounded to the nearest 50c.

Agree, that's something Auckland could learn from Wellington. Another would be having proper discounts (ie 20%+) for 10-trips and smartcard PAYG. Far too much cash handling onboard up there compared to down here.

A agree, there are definitely things that Auckland could do better but I guess my point was that fare increases in Auckland don't seem as needed due to the huge patronage growth that is occurring which is likely negating much of need for them. I would also say that when PTOM comes in it should allow much better control of services and costs by authorities so they should start seeing more money coming to them rather than the pockets of the bus companies which should also help to negate fare increases.

[geoff_184]

I digress, but the Auckland train fares should be increased to match the bus fares and the cash fares should be rounded to the nearest 50c.

I can't think of any advantages to either suggestion (as previously discussed, with 50c rounding, you'll still be handling 10 and 20c coins). Bus bus fares are not always dearer anyway, for example the bus day pass is $10, and the train $12. Different modes with different cost structures, so matching the fares is going to result in one mode subsidising the other.

[eurokiwi78]

LOL actually the complete opposite.

I disagree, The cost of motoring is more likely to go up at or above the rate of inflation than not.

What is the price of petrol now compared with a year ago, I dont pay attention as Ive been carless for sometime but it roughly doubled from the time I got my licence to the time I went carless (fifteen years thereabouts).

NewstalkZB today were discussing the impact on the price of buying imported cars of 30,000 odd less cars being imported on last year. The supply and demand curve suggests this will be inflationary on the price of cars.

I imagine the uptake of cars by the masses in india and china will also have an inflationary effect upon the cost of motoring in New Zealand over time.

I do agree in principle that Public Transport should be cheaper but I imagine there would be an outcry from ratepayers in Manawatu, Horowhenua and Kapiti if they had to pay increased rates to fund more cost effective Public Transport.

[pickle]

This is ridiculous, Wellington does not need another fare increase.

[john-ston]

I can't think of any advantages to either suggestion (as previously discussed, with 50c rounding, you'll still be handling 10 and 20c coins).

But not to the extent that exists at the present, plus making change will be a lot quicker, which would speed up fare collection.

Bus bus fares are not always dearer anyway, for example the bus day pass is $10, and the train $12. Different modes with different cost structures, so matching the fares is going to result in one mode subsidising the other.

Passes are a different kettle of fish and I would wait until we get integrated ticketing until they are aligned. The other issue is that you are going to need to match the fares for integrated ticketing anyway (and the other thing is you don't want to have one mode cheaper than the other when you are trying to run a properly integrated system).

[geoff_184]

But not to the extent that exists at the present, plus making change will be a lot quicker, which would speed up fare collection.

I disagree, as people won't have 50c coins any more than at present, because every other business will still be dealing in different amounts. Your concept would only work if NZ ditched the use of 10 and 20c coins.

The other issue is that you are going to need to match the fares for integrated ticketing anyway (and the other thing is you don't want to have one mode cheaper than the other when you are trying to run a properly integrated system).

Why a need to match fares with integrated ticketing? It's integrated ticketing, not integrated pricing. Also, the trains shouldn't have a fare increase to subsidize buses, which is what you are suggesting.

[john-ston]

I disagree, as people won't have 50c coins any more than at present, because every other business will still be dealing in different amounts. Your concept would only work if NZ ditched the use of 10 and 20c coins.

I disagree there - if you ever go into a bar, you will notice that the drinks are either in whole dollar amounts or multiples of 50 cents, and you notice that when you pay cash, it is very quick. Back when I worked retail, we had a bargain site where the items were priced in whole dollars and change making was very quick.

Additionally, whilst people will not have 50c coins any more than at present, generally at present, they are more likely to pay in whole dollars than exact change. If you can cut just a second from each cash transaction by speeding up the formation of change (and the reduction in the need for mental mathematics), then that would result in faster fare collection and increase fare revenue.

Why a need to match fares with integrated ticketing? It's integrated ticketing, not integrated pricing. Also, the trains shouldn't have a fare increase to subsidize buses, which is what you are suggesting.

To have integrated ticketing, you generally need the fares to be the same, or else you would end up with a Sydney sized mess (Sydney tried introducing integrated ticketing with their current fare system and it was a colossal failure). Furthermore, the trains are subsidised to a heavier degree than the buses, so your second line does not stand.

[keg]

I can't think of any advantages to either suggestion (as previously discussed, with 50c rounding, you'll still be handling 10 and 20c coins).

Significantly faster with 50c rounding. At least that's what the operators (Kiwi Rail, NZ Bus, Mana Coach, etc) think:

The operators have a strong preference for cash fares to be in
multiples of 50c (because of cash handling and ticket issuing
reasons – in particular the need for quick and easy fare collection at
peak times).

Matchs my experience as a passenger over the years too.

Basically up in Auckland cash handling isn't as efficient as it could be and there is too much of it going on anyway.

[geoff_184]

To have integrated ticketing, you generally need the fares to be the same

I don't see why, if you have a HOP card, it'll just automatically deduct whatever that mode charges. Is Britomart to Devonport the same fare by ferry and bus?

[john-ston]

I don't see why, if you have a HOP card, it'll just automatically deduct whatever that mode charges. Is Britomart to Devonport the same fare by ferry and bus?

Although once you factor in daily passes and so on, then things would get quite mucky.

Basically up in Auckland cash handling isn't as efficient as it could be and there is too much of it going on anyway.

Perhaps if they didn't charge for the smart cards (and had more staff at the ticket sales counters), then perhaps you wouldn't have so much cash handling.

[keg]

Perhaps if they didn't charge for the smart cards (and had more staff at the ticket sales counters), then perhaps you wouldn't have so much cash handling.

Bigger discounts for smart cards more likely to cut cash handling (remember that there is a charge for Snapper in Wellington, same as HOP in Auckland).